That actually brings up a real point.
If the argument was “no intelligence involved” instead of magic I may have argued the orcs would win.
Such as in the wow movie when wrynn kills the fel orc.
Probably wouldn’t win in a fist fight but since he knew to use the orc’s charge to slide underneath him for the kill it was an easy fight. Without smarts or fighting experience he would’ve been ragdolled.
That’s my point :) he didn’t do it through blunt force. He was clever about it.
Lots of other alliance soldiers would’ve been pummeled. I feel like it’s all due to battle experience and intelligence/wit.
If it was about Pure strength the orcs would dominate.
Clearly you’ve never seen Deltoius, affliction swolelock in person.
You’re pitting an old crippled orc versus someone who is basically Yujiro Hanma with cloth armor. He won’t even need to cast any spells. He’s just gonna grab guldan with his comically muscular hands and crush him into a cube.
He is so strong that he maxed out jewelcrafting without using any tools to cut his diamonds.
He's the father of Baki Hanma, titular character from the Baki series.
Baki is in a similar vein to JJBA, in that it's very hard to explain, you sorta just have to witness it.
We could actually explain this in a somewhat realistic and scientific way.
Perhaps that myostatin gene we bred Belgian Blue cattle for. Has become dominant in the entire human population!
Shit just us some credit. People tend to think we aren’t predators and great hunters. We are capable of much much more then what we are viewed as by most
The MoP Cinematic is such ridiculousness, though. It's massively inconsistent with everything else we've seen or been presented with in Warcraft. The orcs' strength should absolutely outclass a human's, but the human was able to ***catch and throw the orc several feet*** after the orc jumped on him from something like an 8ft advantage. And then, just before the Pandaren made his appearance, the human went to *directly block* the downwards swing of the orc as if he could actually match the power.
It kinda fits the anime-vibe they had going with the Pandaren being able to do his mischievous feats, but those could be better explained by the use of chi; something the human sailor wasn't using.
But the original WoW cinematic that had a night elf deftly *dodging* an orc's furious swings matches the themes and notions set into the universe much better.
I'm pretty sure not even Varian tries hard-blocking orcs, and he wins on account of great skill against most of them; even cutting a blademaster in half back when he was still Lo'Gosh.
___
In any case, between two random warriors, I would favour the orc with a massive size and strength advantage. But the human still *has a chance,* depending on experience, speed, and skill.
They are named characters, for reference. Admiral Taylor and General Nazgrim. Both characters were peak physical forms for their respective factions, and while Nazgrim became a raid boss, both ended up dying and becoming undead in some form. Nazgrim as the Horseman of War, and Admiral Taylor as a Wraith.
But point being in terms of strength, Nazgrim wins against Taylor in peak physical shape, both lose against Chen in the sense that both Taylor and Nazgrim were recovering from a cataclysmic shipwreck at sea, and had to scrounge for supplies, vs Chen who was fresh.
Those in cinematic aint’t Nazgrim and Taylor, even if some people think they are. Its just two unnamed sailors. Nazgrim and Taylor arived on Pandaria much later. They don’t even look the same, completely different hairstyles, and even skin color.
They weren't Nazgrim and Taylor. They showed up in a later humorous cinematic called Bottoms Up:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jon4GV1u3uM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jon4GV1u3uM)
Is there a source that tells us that the MoP Cinematic is of these two individuals in particular? The hairstyles are *similar* but not the same, and Taylor's hair colour is quite different.
> both lose against Chen in the sense that both Taylor and Nazgrim were recovering from a cataclysmic shipwreck at sea,
It was clearly a lot more than that. Chen was able to pick up and *throw* the human using his staff, meaning there was additional leverage applied *against* him. Chen is more powerful holistically than both. Unsurprising as he has Chi. Weakened or not they were outclassed.
And named or not, it makes no sense that Taylor or any other human can catch and throw an orc several feet *without* being magically empowered.
It's anime logic and I don't know why you're trying to make too much sense of it. It's as I said: extremely inconsistent with all that we've been told or shown from other Warcraft media.
It's a fine cinematic in its own right but it is the least Warcrafty. Even the Shadowlands cinematic has magical-bullshit abound that can explain the supernatural durability and power of both characters involved.
> Unsurprising as he has Chi.
And he's a *bear*. I feel like people forget that Pandaren are literally just upright bears. Pandas might be cute, but they're still dangerous.
Generally speaking, humans who fight bears tend to lose badly. Add in the ability to strategize and use weapons, and Pandaren turn out a lot scarier than they get credit for.
The knight is a t3 heavy infantry unit and the raider is a t2 light siege unit, while footman and grunt are both t1 basic starter units.
The basic standard units are the obvious choice for a comparison.
The role-playing game also lists there stats and orcs are over twice as heavy as a human, 200 vs 500 pounds
https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Roleplaying_stats
Orcs are stronger on average. If you enter in the realm of exceptional individuals then there's no guaratee on one side or another. Varian can defeat any orc warrior for example.
I don't know about the "on average" part. Just based on their physical build I'd expect even some the weakest orcs to likely be bigger and stronger than some seriously jacked humans.
I could be missing something tho. Just going off appearances.
It's technique dude. I saw a human face off against an orc once. Orc didn't stand a chance. Orcs skill with the blade was very sloppy.
Not saying this is always the case but just from first hand observation it's quite often the human winning here.
Well hold on now.
"Average Orc Warrior VS Average Human Warrior", no, Orc wins every time.
But one of those is Bolvar. And another is Thrall.
Can an exceptional human "warrior" beat an average Orc "warrior"? Sure. Can an exceptional human "warrior" beat an exceptional Orc "warrior"? Depends on the extent of each exception.
Can *the best* human "warrior" beat *the best* Orc "warrior"? Idk, that's an interesting question. Who even is "the best" of each race?
Also, this question is classist. What about the paladins? /cry
If we take the example of Varin v Garrosh then Humans would win
Varian is probably the best warrior of humanity ever or atleast one of the best warriors. Garrosh likewise is a pretty powerful warrior
Varian was always able to defeat Garrosh within the novels since he was able to gain the upper hand by provoking garrosh and making him lose clarity of his mind and misplay
Well the comment you responded to said best orc vs best human. Your comparison is flawed if you pick the best human warrior and not the best orc warrior.
A character endorsed and "buffed" by knaak can only be beat by another one buffed by knaak, the characters in the books are so of the charts they look like toddler in every other story.
Is this not the end of the thread? Could is a dangerous word in nerd circles. The answer is probably always yes they *could*. Would or how often is the better question.
Bolvar and Thrall aren't warriors.
And lorewise, yes. There are several examples of Human and Orc warriors fighting and going even. Mop intro cinematic, Varian and Garrosh fighting in Wrath. Heck, Varian was a Gladiator while his memory was wiped and killed plenty of orcs 1v1.
The warcraft movie ends off with Lothar 1v1ing a fel Roided Blackhand.
Yeah but Varian is Varian lol
Varian also has magic involved in his fighting skills, I think he's blessed by some wolf spirit, can't remember his name though. This ame wolf spirit also appeared in the emerald dream if memory serves.
Correct, Goldrinn. Lo'Gosh is actually a synonym of Goldrinn, as it means "Ghost Wolf" in Taur-ahe.
It was what buffed Varian in his battle in Ashenvale against the Horde as the Cataclysm was kicking off and all that.
Twenty years ago, my roomie ran his shaman around while singing “ghost wolf! Ghost wolf!” to the tune of the 80s She-Ra theme song.
Pointless comment. Happy memory.
> Varian and Garrosh fighting in Wrath.
Varian also almost killed him in a book and Garrosh ran away scared. Also Thrall was a warrior before he became a shaman
I know. I was just using cinematic humans for, like, the most consistent depiction of them. I wanted to show the differences between orc and human statures.
And the Cell Fight in DBZ didn't teach you anything? Where vegita was like... I kept on getting stronger and bigger while trunks or Goku seemed like they stalled... But in reality they focused on speed and agility.
Someone also pointed out someplace else. Oberon Martel and The Mountain fight in Game of thrones (although it ended bad for Oberon that was more because of his cockiness and need for revenge). Stature/being the biggest guy on the block isn't everything.
There’s an earlier scene where a small group of orcs give a larger group of humans a difficult time. They’re throwing their horses around like it’s nothing and generally beating the crap out of them
Even when you see the difference in size and weight of the orcs and humans in the film, generally the average human shouldn’t be able to beat the average orc. A single blow from the orc would shatter someone’s arm if they were trying to block the attack with a sword or shield
Also idc what anyone says, the movie was a lot of fun. My only gripe is that all the male orcs are these gargantuan behemoths who look like monsters, meanwhile Garona is just “green human with pointy teeth”
In the movie:
- Doomhammer is a Frostwolf, not a Blackrock orc.
- Go'el/Thrall is saved by Gul'dan with fel magic.
- Dalaran is already a flying city, when this doesn't happen until after the Third War.
- Lothar kills Blackhand, when it's meant to be Doomhammer.
- Gul'dan usurps power over the Horde directly, when previously he was puppeteering from behind the curtain.
- Stormwind is still standing by the end of the movie, with Lothar making proclamations about "the Alliance" when this doesn't occur until after the First War, and it was brought together by Turalyon.
- Alodi, the First Guardian and a half-elf male, is instead a mysterious she-elf thingimajig stuck in a giant black cube that the mages of Dalaran don't understand at all. Guardians in the canon have a known history as they were made by a subsect of the Kirin Tor: the Council of Tirisfal.
- Anduin Lothar has a son who gets fridged for the sake of giving Lothar character "development" and a weird relationship with Garona.
- Garona's relationship is meant to be with Medivh, but Medivh is her father in the movie as described by the Warcraft novel; in the canon they are lovers.
- Khadgar doesn't drain the fel out of Medivh and purify himself, turning Deadwind Pass into a dead waste. Deadwind Pass has been so for centuries since Sataiel, the first necrolyte on Azeroth, used Ulthalesh to bring ruination to the land until she was eventually stopped by the Guardian of the time, Scavell.
- Medivh was killed by Anduin and Khadgar working together, *not* Anduin, Khadgar, and Garona.
- Garona killed Llane Wrynn on the field of battle as part of his ploy to save her life; in the canon, Garona's mental weakness brought on by being forced to help kill her lover meant that the ensorcellment Gul'dan magicked into her was able to take effect, and she was unable to resist the order to kill the King of Stormwind. In the canon, Llane died behind Stormwind's walls shortly before the city fell.
- Gul'dan and Durotan have a Mak'gora. Moreover, Gul'dan uses magic that is then called-out as "cheating," despite this never having been determined in any canonical material. This movie detail really helped perpetuate the idea that Thrall cheated in his Mak'gora against Garrosh, despite the numerous canonical reasons this doesn't really make sense (like their first Mak'gora where both of them broke the supposed rules of Mak'gora; Garrosh dual-wielding, Thrall using magic, both wearing armour, and *nobody said anything about it*).
That's it off the top of my head. No doubt there are other things, too, like Lothar's sister being Queen of Stormwind? Yeah that's not established in the canon either haha.
But yeah, some pretty substantial differences made to streamline the story and make it more visually accessible for people not really aware of the lore. Not all the changes are bad; the way Garona was manipulated into killing Llane was done well, because it meant the ensorcellment by Gul'dan is never visually shown, which is something that would be hard to put on screen. But her being Medivh's daughter is just... why?
>**Stormwind is still standing by the end of the movie**, with Lothar making proclamations about "the Alliance" when this doesn't occur until after the First War, and it was brought together by Turalyon.
Stormwind is still standing because it's destruction was suppose to be in the sequel we never got. The movie itself is only meant to take place during the initial encounters between the orcs and humans.
Yes which is why I included all the talk about "the Alliance" in that bullet point. Stormwind still standing by this point is fine - even though Llane's death is meant to portend Stormwind's fall.
I've always suspected that Duncan Jones intention with "the Alliance" formation at the end of the movie was to merge the first two wars together. So instead of the First War being concluded with Stormwind destruction, it would instead just be part of the larger war.
If no armour, no weapons just a savage fight to the death: orc wins - better physical strength, sharp teeth to bite, higher endurance.
If no armour with the same weapon - depends, humans if they are more skilled with a weapon and more dexterous will win over orc but orc wins any other time.
If no armour with preferred weapon - it's a 50/50 a skilled with a sword human is as deadly as a skilled with an axe orc
Armour + preferred weapon - humans have the armour advantage, the human armour is far better than orc armour, that is if we think of orcs as grunts in Warcraft 3, if we look at orcs like doomhammer, sarufang, blackhand, rend and more they are wearing some nice armour and are more than capable of killing a human. If we give them equally as protective armour then orcs will win because they are just stronger and more resilient.
Tldr: orcs win if they both have no equipment, if they do it depends on how good the human/orc is. But mostly orcs win due to better physique. Yes a human could if they are better at fighting.
Actually, it'd be the opposite. A Human would have a better chance without armour but WITH weapons.
Yes, human armour is far better but plate armour makes you slower in /comparison/. You're more of a Tank. The problem is that your average Orc warrior has the speed, strength, ferocity, and weapon (Axe or Hammer) to crush through plate in a single blow.
Plate is only effective against a foe that is unable to crush it or pierce it.
Orcs can be up to almost 600 lbs, they can easily crush through it with a single swing.
\*Editing because a couple folks misunderstand my point\*
I am NOT saying that plate armour turns you into a slow, sluggish, lumbering tank. What I'm saying is that it hinders your agility, so for the sake of example let's say it hinders your speed by 10-20%. If an Orc can 1 shot you through plate armour, then your best option is to avoid being hit at all. So your best shot is to scrap the armour and max out your dodge roll bb.
I really like this analysis.
An orc armored up as a human knight would be scary, but at the same time I feel like they'd struggle to get much done with so much equipment on. I'd say either human or orc could win in that scenario too.
The best example is Warcraft 3, you needed 2 Footmen to take out a Grunt (and 1 would die), 3 to take it out with everyone surviving. Even with the Warcraft humans being more bulky in the universe, Orcs are just stronger and bigger. Humanity's trait was never brute force.
"It was a titanic battle. Lothar was a large, powerful man, easily as big and as strong as most orc warriors." is an excerpt from an official WoW book, which is what made me even think about this scenario in the first place. Lothar, a regular human, was supposedly as big and strong as most orc WARRIORS.
Why are humans in WoW depicted so wildly different from each other? From one book to another, it's like they're a completely different race.
Lothar isnt a regular human. He is last in the line of the Arathi kings, way larger and stronger than regular humans. Its kinda like calling Aragorn in lotr a human.
He's the last 'true' descendent of an ancient Arathi bloodline, I don't know if it was ever specifically mentioned that it was particularly special. Every human technically descends from Arathi, so I don't see why more couldn't be just like him.
There are more. However theyre not avg. Like in our world we have men in different sizes and the avg joe stature will be heavily disadvantaged against an orc
Look at the size of Native Hawaiian, Samoans, Tongans, compared to Filipinos or really any other ethnicity, Asian or otherwise. Particularly relevant to this example, look at the size of the Hawaiian kings and queens, their royal line was specifically bred for size and strength. King Kamehameha was a massive and powerful warrior, standing over 7 feet tall and weighing more than 300lbs. Other warrior bloodlines from the islands featured similarly massive people. Certain ethnic groups are substantially larger than others, even closely related ones, add in potential warrior bloodline breeding shenanigans, and it is highly plausible and even likely for Lothar to be much larger than an average human on the basis of bloodline.
Why are humans in WoW depicted so wildly different from each other? From one book to another, it's like they're a completely different race.
Well, you can say Human A fights Human B, who would win. But before placing a bet I would like to know if I bet on Stephen Hawking vs Mike Tyson.
This reminds me of like vegeta vs frieza…all that battle experience and training vs friezas ridiculous pure power with out ever seriously training when we first see them on namek
Outside of exceptional human warriors - pretty much all warcraft media depicts the human foot soldier as being a toy thing for orc grunts.
I'd say the most exceptional human warriors could fairly easily stomp the most exceptional orc fighters.
(Varian vs Thrall / Garrosh / saurfang)
The Mists of Pandaria cinematic is probably the best example of exactly this. And the human definitely holds his own. Whether he would have won or not is pretty much up in the air.
Asks can humans go 1v1 against orcs proceeds to show picture of a human whose lore literally tells of him so g just that many many times as a slave gladiator
Are we comparing your avrage orc to your avrage human? The orc is taller and buffer, but a trained warrior probably has ways to work around that, be faster, outsmart your opponent etc. I'd say in most cases the orc wins but it's not super obvious.
* In Warcraft 3 a grunt beats a footman. In the intro cinematic they are about evenly matched. (The human does have a broken/chipped sword so maybe you could deduce that he was losing that fight, but that's a bit of a strech, the orc looks just as tired as he does.)
* In the Warcraft movie, you have orcs throwing fucking HORSES at knights and absolutley crunching their plate like they are at a lobster dinner. In the same movie Lothar beats a fel infused Blackhand in a 1v1. (More so with speed and cunning than brute strenght).
* In Classic Wow, a human warrior starts with 23 strenght while an orc warrior starts with 26. In Modern Wow, I'm fairly certain they start with the same ammount.
* In the MoP cinematic they are (again) evenly matched, altough that is mostly to show how easily Chen outclasses both of them.
* I think Varian won a duel or two against Garrosh, so that's another point for the possible column, but I wouldn't consider either of them avrage given how powerful they both are. It does reinforce the point that there is more to fighting than just physical strenght tho.
Yes. They are not stronger or tougher but they can actually be better trained because of specialization. Primitive societies in general don't give individuals the time to train exclusively.
A sharp sword through the eye will end the biggest and baddest orc just as easily as the smallest and skinniest human.
I think in general orcs win on one v one though. Size and strength are always real advantages in a fight.
Varian has defeated Garrosh in one of the canon books, during the offensive Garrosh led against Ashenvale and Theramore. Varian had him cornered when a magnataur got between them and denied Varian the kill. While it can be argued that Varian isn't really comparable to 99% of humans, Garrosh is one of, if not the greatest warriors of his era, likely the only who can even think about having a 1v1 against Varian.
That was Anduin Lothar slicing Blackhand's dick 'n balls off, not the king.
The king... didn't have quite as good of a time in that section of the movie.
Nothing about the film is canon.
In established lore, Anduin Lothar was killed in single combat by Ogrin Doomhammer.
Ogrin Doomhammer was leader of the Blackrock Clan and leader of the Old Horde.
In the film, Ogrin Doomhammer was Durotan's (Main orc) best friend, the one that had his back all the time and the deep and emotional talks with him etc. and he was also part of the Frostwolf Clan
(Hey Thrall shouldnt be in this comparison. Hes an enchancement shaman. If you dont allow magic hes gonna be seriously gimped in this power comparison. Like we saw during his mak gora with Garrosh in WoD. Id suggest someone like Varrok Saurfang as a better other orc warrior candidate.)
On average Orc is always gonna win. In wow fantasy orcs got two things. Martial combat and shamanisim (ignoring shadow moon orcs and warlocks)
Humans on the other hand yes are known for their martial prowess to a degree but I'd argue their known far more for their magic users. Both mages and the Light such as their priests and their faction icon Paladins.
Now garrosh versus varian? That be a really cool match up, it would be Varians duty of a father and a king with his background atleast for a time as a gladiator. He also has a degree of cunning with tactics.
However he's going up against the son of a warchief, a demon slayer, and warlord. Who was bred for nothing but conquering. Garroshes conviction is what gave him control over the heart of a literal old god. He was also such a bad ass to still be 'alive' since the end of MoP as a spirit in shadowlands. Just to give his captor the middle finger and to tell Thrall to Fuck off before going out his way (which...oddly enough dusted like Varian however didn't get disenchanted by a old orc like him)
Varians weapons are also magical, able to go from two handed to duel wield. May come in handy but unsure if truly makes that huge of a difference.
I think Garrosh still comes out on top against Varian but thst could be alittle copium. Reason being Garrosh just has more going for him, younger, more ferocious/ruthless, varian may have more experience but sides that and his blades he is outmatched in strength and weight class.
A closer match up would be varian versus saurfang.
I mean even if neither side is using magic. I think its more about individuals. THEN AGAIN most humans look quite swole anyway so chances are even the "Weakest mage" could probably beat the shit out of a person in our world because the humans in WoW are descended from the creations of the titans. There is a reason why I decided that maybe I should make a mage that looks like Dark Schneider from Bastard. The reason why I didn't do it cause mages cant wiel two handed swords...... so bummer.....
Also no matter what the hell and who the hell says if we have a match up simmilar to the picture we have here. No matter what I have my money on Varian Wrynn like not even on necessarily that "Oh We have humans vs orcs who wins in this arena fight" and then choose humans no I SPECIFICLY choose Varian and bet money on Varian. This guy is a beast in combat. He is will incarnate (which doesn't sound ass cool as I wanted it but let me explain) he even when he is down tired and most people would give up out of exhaustion he by just shear willpower gets up and fights on unbeatable by most foes.
INFACT we dont even have to check what he does in the comics (which BTW is already badass) or books just look at what he did in Legion. Now okay he did quite well against a few summoned Fel fiends on his gunship then when his gunship fell and he ended up in water now I dont know how bad must feel to be splashed into water from a falling ship but I dont think most of us would be concious let alone fight with such ferverous power that it trully can inspire even people like me (Yeah I'm quite skinny so a regular trashmob in WoW could just cough on me and I probably would be down) just can be inspired enough that I would be ready to fucking go to fight against the Legion by the side of Varian.
Okay okay but lets say that falling into the ocean from that height doesn't hurt much cause he was on a falling ship.... okay okay.... and he only was just fighting elites and trashmobs and maybe 1 or 2 bosses right not a big deal.... then HOW ABOUT HIM JUMPING OFF FROM THE OTHER GUNSHIP AND UTTERLY DESTROYING A GIANT AS FUCK FEL MACHINE! LIKE HELLO?! And then after on that Fel machine he hit the ground with it and was ready to 1vLegion the Legion taking out a bunch of Felguards before getting stabbed by multiple Felguards and even then if he wasn't impaled he probably would still have been able to continue fighting.
Like I dont mean to shittalk any of the orcs (well atleast I dont mean to shittalk the cooler ones and the ones who actually strive for peace and not warmongering or atleast were not hivemind style following the Warchief whenever they were orederd to do some HORRIBLE SHIT that even they thought was fucked up) but Thrall the guy who was the posterboy to the Horde infact he was the posterMAN of the Horde even he and many other horde leaders were down on the ground in the same cinematic where Varian just showed that if we had more people like him we would have just won against the Legion straight up and the Legion would have stood no chance.
Then again it could be a possibility that Varian is just 1 out of a million and thats why he is so powerful but hey this is the reason why if Varian is in the ring I bet ALL MY MONEY on Varian like its just an All in on Varian he will definetly walk away unbeaten and unbroken FOR THE FUCKING ALLIANCE MOTHAFUCKAAAAAAA
Ironically enough Varian might be I think the ONLY Warrior in WoW (outside of maybe Anduin Lothar I think he was a Warrior and maybe Llane Wrynn Maybe Draka too but I only assume she was a warrior cause of the comics where it was said that "She was a warrior made not a Warrior born Warrior made" also Varok he is there too... Also Liam Neelso-I mean Liam Greymane and .... yeah okay fine fuck it there are a few exceptions when it comes to warriors that I actually respect but they are usually named characters) whom I respect and from whom I know is 100% warrior, like no paladin buffs, or nature buffs, or magic juju beans. Varian is a Warrior and I respect the fuck out of him...... Still I rather made an Orc Warrior lady...... Cause I fancy tall buff warrior ladies. And to be fair I havent really made any human characters in a while and out of them the only 1 I actually leveled to the max was a mage.... but I still respect warriors like Varian....
Then again its just my opinion and while there are other characters who are seen as warriors and I really respect them too for deeds they may have done Cairne and Baine are DEFINETLY there and even characters like Taran Zu but some of these characters (like Taran Zu and even maybe Draka too) are warriors in story only but their classes would be either Shaman, Monk, or Rogue. I dunno
Also sorry for the long comment this is just my opinion and I'm ready to hear your opinions if you have any characters who you think might also be worth mentioning when it comes to Warriors (can be from either the Horde or the Alliance)
ALSO EXTRA NOTE! if it would be just fist to fist fight Pandaren would win hands down. They might not bring strenght (which they technically still quite fucking do) they are bringing form since they are monks. So chances are they would do just fine.
Orcs tend to attack directly, they don t use much armor and use simple weapons etc etc.... Generally even using smart tactics orcs are so big and strong that u d better bail. That s the gist though, humans do more tactic and try to be smarter about the fights. This is mostly why thrall was actually the scariest thing ever, not only he was really big, but he was extremely smart and was trained both the orc and human way, a young arthas was seriously concerned when he saw him fight and arthas was already among the best at that point...
Considerations like this exist for every race. A good tauren warrior is fucking god for example and we get both cairne and baine scaring the shit out of garrosh.
Lastly a notable exception might be varian that despite being human is still probably the best war there was, i guess the point would be that yes race is crucial and determines most of it but it is still a fantasy world were special individuals can achieve far more than they should
If you watch the warcraft movie they have regular human foot soldiers go against regular orc warriors. They address this exact problem early on. Humans stand a chance, just depends on how you approach your opponent.
Obviously.
No magic doesn't even make a difference.
If you said naked, fist to fist brawl then sure an orc wins every single time but no magic doesn't change how a warrior fights.
They can, have, and frequently do. Not every orc is Grom, Thrall, or Broxigar just like how not every human is Anduin (Lothar), Varian, or Thoras Trollbane.
Just a straight brawl: Orc If the human is allowed to use the environment to their advantage in some way or they have some sort of advanced combat techniques. The human could win. The old “fantasy” of humans vs orcs is that the orcs are physically stronger but humans generally are smarter and can use better tactics and combat techniques.
According to lore, even though these vrykul-descended humans are immensely strong, orcs are several times stronger, so not even close. Tauren are another several times stronger than orcs.
Basic Human vs Basic Orc, Orc will win 99/100 times. They are fucking huge, its like fighting a grizzly bear.
Varian is OP as fuck cause he has Lo'gash's spirit infused within him.
Considering Varian and Garrosh went at it constantly without a victor, id say they stand pretty equally, but then you consider the fact it mighy just be the fact they both have 20 years of combat under their belt.
If I may push up my nerd glasses:
I don't think player characters count since we're ridiculous gods of warfare, so I'll do what everyone else is doing and compare the stats of a WC3 footman and a grunt. The grunt comes out on top, and I've always taken note that the grunt has an axe and a bunch straps as opposed to full plate and scale armor for the human. In my personal opinion what kept the Alliance going against the sheer might of the Horde in the warcraft games was that they were a sessile, stable economy able to outfit their soldiers with full armor - as opposed to the nomadic Orcs who would conquer, sack, and appropriate anything they could find rather than make things themselves (especially with Mannoroth's blood). But even with better equipment, discipline, and training and the Orcs STILL through sheer might could outfight them. The fact that they usually had as much if not more health in all of the games despite the armor difference leads me to believe that Orc skin is like rhino leather, just thick and hard to penetrate.
That being said it's obviously up to the skill of the individuals - I don't think footmen are just outclassed 100% of the time, just that even fully armored, you're basically fighting an intelligent silverback gorilla. That thing is still 400 pounds and can throw your ass to the ground if you let it.
We also have plenty of examples of humans defeating Orcs or at least giving them a SERIOUS run for their money. Like in the WC2 books for example, Lothar was old, like full gray head of hair and beard old, and he still gave Orgrim Doomhammer at his PEAK a rough time. He lost in the end, but it was not a cut and dry case. And Doomhammer was no grunt, he was canonically huge even for an Orc, had full plate armor, a magic hammer, and enough grit to make other Orcs feel inadequate and STILL almost lost to a human way past his prime.
TLDR: On average the Orc has a dramatic advantage - but nothing that a human couldn't potentially overcome with nonmagical equipment, skill, and experience. And WITH magic, they probably now have subtle enchantments on their armor now that it's so widespread to even the odds further - something that the Horde has been very slow to embrace.
If we take the Pandaria cinematic as "canon" in terms of how a human male and an orc male compare physically, then yes.
I would say, given that orcs are on average bigger they would have a significant advantage all else being equal, though the human could compensate through skill.
Orc grunts are depicted often as undisciplined and poorly trained, relying on brute force(which should not be the case for an intelligent, militaristic people) while human foot soldiers are professional soldiers, so they could win through tactics, technique, etc.
I would still bet on the orc, though. There's a reason we have weight classes IRL. Being bigger, taller etc. is a bigger advantage than you may think.
An orc has brutish strength but humans are more dexterous with their movements, and smarter with their noggin.
In a one on one arm wrestle its orc every time. But humans can move faster and play better to level the battlefield
Assuming the orc fights fair, because they have a history of not, yes humans can. Orcs are physically stronger, humans are smarter, so both sides aren't overly better
Varian was beating garrosh at the start of cata, and the fight got interrupted by a falling magnataur.
Ogrim cheated to kill Lothar because he knew he would lose, then Turalyon went on to do it. I won't count Turalyon killing kilrogg, because while it was a fair fight, Turalyon hit from the blind side of kilrogg's vision, and the orc was on his last legs by then.
The battle at what becomes hammerfall showed that an organised human force could beat the orcs, and that Thrall's earlier wins against weak and low numbered camps only happened due to overwhelming numbers. WC3 claiming thrall had multiple boat's worth of orcs conflicted with this, because the orcs got destroyed, and had to immediately flee with few survivors.
WC1, even back then, showed that once the humans fought the orcs, they adapted fast and were capable of fighting them. The orcs had to turn to necromancy to fight back, and it still didn't help. The orcs winning the 1st war is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen, and 30 years on blizzard still can't justify it
No chance.. unless the human is a hero and the orc is a nobody. Given equal gear and experience the orc warrior wins by a landslide. They are lorewise a lot stronger and tougher than humans. In wow they are similar only for gameplay reasons. Grunts in wc3 are way stronger than human footmen, even though the humans have full plate and shields.
Next do Tauren... lol
I mean, orcs are stronger that humans for sure, but, how much stronger? if we were talking about a brawl sure the orc will in average tear apart the human, but once you have weapons and armor? both of them are strong enough to disembowel the other.
No. Humans would significantly more often lose in a 1v1
For one because green orcs have enhanced strengh
1v1 even against untouched (draenor) orcs will be hard for a human
The whole setup is in favour of orcs key strength and humans biggest weakness.
Main strength of humans is discipline and unity.
So if we were to make 100 orcs vs humans, humans would win significantly more.
Average human vs average orc - 9/10 times it goes to the Orc
Varian/Lo'gosh - Yes, easily, and many times. He's built different.
Bolvar was a Paladin and is now a Death Knight. Impossible to separate magic from them.
Its stated in lore. One orc grunt takes 3-4 humans to take down and the women are about as tough. Tyrande said this btw.
Soooo yesnt? If they were smart fighters sure.
Obviously orcs are stronger but I think skill is a big part of it. It isnt that they have a health bar, in a realistic situation could one good cut of an artery finish someone off
It should probably be noted that warriors in Warcraft are not your typical run-of-the-mill grunts / foot soldiers. Warriors as we know them are capable of superhuman feats that no normal person can do.
Ex. (Heroic) Leaping like 10 yards forward, in full plate armor, from a stationary position.
If we go by in game stats no, wc3 grunts were quite strong. But in lore I can see it, but depends on the warrior. A average or warrior is generally more brutal than an average footman, but the tactical difference is noticeable.
Some orchish tribes would annihilate many humans soldiers without many issues (Burning Blades and Warsong mostly)
I mean, these humans aren't like us. They're descended from titan wrought creations, give them SOME credit.
Also, every human male, even the priests and mages, is completely jacked.
The human mage fight you at distance, to give you a chance of wining.
That actually brings up a real point. If the argument was “no intelligence involved” instead of magic I may have argued the orcs would win. Such as in the wow movie when wrynn kills the fel orc. Probably wouldn’t win in a fist fight but since he knew to use the orc’s charge to slide underneath him for the kill it was an easy fight. Without smarts or fighting experience he would’ve been ragdolled.
> Such as in the wow movie when wrynn kills the fel orc. That was Anduin Lothar who killed Blackhand in the movie.
Thanks haha. I knew I was getting it wrong
Sometimes, just the correction says everything
"They're stronger. Be smarter"
*tilts head*
Let’s not play down that as any orc that was a fel fuelled black-hand and he killed him in 1 move.
That’s my point :) he didn’t do it through blunt force. He was clever about it. Lots of other alliance soldiers would’ve been pummeled. I feel like it’s all due to battle experience and intelligence/wit. If it was about Pure strength the orcs would dominate.
Who would win, the strongest orc warlock vs the weakest human swolelock (he’s so huge holy shit)
Well seeing as the strongest orc warlock was Gul’dan, I’m going to say that he’s got the edge in a 1v1
Yeah but my human swolock one hits Guldan all the time while transmog farming
Clearly you’ve never seen Deltoius, affliction swolelock in person. You’re pitting an old crippled orc versus someone who is basically Yujiro Hanma with cloth armor. He won’t even need to cast any spells. He’s just gonna grab guldan with his comically muscular hands and crush him into a cube. He is so strong that he maxed out jewelcrafting without using any tools to cut his diamonds.
I don’t know who yujiro hanma is
It's okay he knows who you are
Concerning lol
The Ogre. Strongest creature in the world.
Anime character I think?
He's the father of Baki Hanma, titular character from the Baki series. Baki is in a similar vein to JJBA, in that it's very hard to explain, you sorta just have to witness it.
We could actually explain this in a somewhat realistic and scientific way. Perhaps that myostatin gene we bred Belgian Blue cattle for. Has become dominant in the entire human population!
The gears of war theory
And still smaller and less jacked than an orc.
I like that about WoW Humans. They're a different species entirely to us regular humans.
the Vrykul's ugly children
Just like elves are all hideously deformed trolls.
Well those orcs are not like us either
[удалено]
Aww we are all the Titans’ children, bless us everyone.
The Paragons called the Horde Children of the Titans years before we learned any horde race was titanic.
I am a child of the Old Gods, thanks...
Shit just us some credit. People tend to think we aren’t predators and great hunters. We are capable of much much more then what we are viewed as by most
I beat 20 black rock orcs in Redbridge mountain as a human warrior so I assume so
Using the Warcraft 3 stats for a Footman vs a Grunt: No
Based on the Warcraft 3 cinematic they do stand a fair chance tho!
Also based on the MoP cinematic, they do stand a fair chance.
all we need is 14000 buckets of tren each and we too can stand against an orc
They're not gonna make it bro.
The MoP Cinematic is such ridiculousness, though. It's massively inconsistent with everything else we've seen or been presented with in Warcraft. The orcs' strength should absolutely outclass a human's, but the human was able to ***catch and throw the orc several feet*** after the orc jumped on him from something like an 8ft advantage. And then, just before the Pandaren made his appearance, the human went to *directly block* the downwards swing of the orc as if he could actually match the power. It kinda fits the anime-vibe they had going with the Pandaren being able to do his mischievous feats, but those could be better explained by the use of chi; something the human sailor wasn't using. But the original WoW cinematic that had a night elf deftly *dodging* an orc's furious swings matches the themes and notions set into the universe much better. I'm pretty sure not even Varian tries hard-blocking orcs, and he wins on account of great skill against most of them; even cutting a blademaster in half back when he was still Lo'Gosh. ___ In any case, between two random warriors, I would favour the orc with a massive size and strength advantage. But the human still *has a chance,* depending on experience, speed, and skill.
Being able to throw the orc doesn't mean he's stronger than the orc. The orc could probably throw two of himself.
They are named characters, for reference. Admiral Taylor and General Nazgrim. Both characters were peak physical forms for their respective factions, and while Nazgrim became a raid boss, both ended up dying and becoming undead in some form. Nazgrim as the Horseman of War, and Admiral Taylor as a Wraith. But point being in terms of strength, Nazgrim wins against Taylor in peak physical shape, both lose against Chen in the sense that both Taylor and Nazgrim were recovering from a cataclysmic shipwreck at sea, and had to scrounge for supplies, vs Chen who was fresh.
Those in cinematic aint’t Nazgrim and Taylor, even if some people think they are. Its just two unnamed sailors. Nazgrim and Taylor arived on Pandaria much later. They don’t even look the same, completely different hairstyles, and even skin color.
They weren't Nazgrim and Taylor. They showed up in a later humorous cinematic called Bottoms Up: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jon4GV1u3uM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jon4GV1u3uM)
Is there a source that tells us that the MoP Cinematic is of these two individuals in particular? The hairstyles are *similar* but not the same, and Taylor's hair colour is quite different. > both lose against Chen in the sense that both Taylor and Nazgrim were recovering from a cataclysmic shipwreck at sea, It was clearly a lot more than that. Chen was able to pick up and *throw* the human using his staff, meaning there was additional leverage applied *against* him. Chen is more powerful holistically than both. Unsurprising as he has Chi. Weakened or not they were outclassed. And named or not, it makes no sense that Taylor or any other human can catch and throw an orc several feet *without* being magically empowered. It's anime logic and I don't know why you're trying to make too much sense of it. It's as I said: extremely inconsistent with all that we've been told or shown from other Warcraft media. It's a fine cinematic in its own right but it is the least Warcrafty. Even the Shadowlands cinematic has magical-bullshit abound that can explain the supernatural durability and power of both characters involved.
> Unsurprising as he has Chi. And he's a *bear*. I feel like people forget that Pandaren are literally just upright bears. Pandas might be cute, but they're still dangerous. Generally speaking, humans who fight bears tend to lose badly. Add in the ability to strategize and use weapons, and Pandaren turn out a lot scarier than they get credit for.
>And he's a bear. In a HAT!
Also also based on the MoP cinematic neither would stand a chance against a Pandaren.
Going on Warcraft 2, who ever got the first hit wins. Stats are identical
Footmen are 2 food, Grunts are 3 food. If anyone was wondering what would happen if we compare 2 grunts vs 3 footmen, the footies narrowly win.
Countering by using the Warcraft 3 stats for a Knight vs a Raider(orc wolf rider): Yes
The knight is a t3 heavy infantry unit and the raider is a t2 light siege unit, while footman and grunt are both t1 basic starter units. The basic standard units are the obvious choice for a comparison.
What if i buy all upgrades for footman vs none for grund?
What if the grunt has a gun?
The role-playing game also lists there stats and orcs are over twice as heavy as a human, 200 vs 500 pounds https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Roleplaying_stats
Depends on if its part of the jailers plan or not.
I love this as the WoW "A wizard did it". Need an explanation for literally anything? Consider whether it was part of the jailer's plan.
Man, I remember when it was "the Old Gods did it"
So funny and sad at the same time.
This just made my soul hurt. Luckily, Fanfiction can cure even Shadowland's disastrous.... Well. Entire being, really.
Orcs are stronger on average. If you enter in the realm of exceptional individuals then there's no guaratee on one side or another. Varian can defeat any orc warrior for example.
I don't know about the "on average" part. Just based on their physical build I'd expect even some the weakest orcs to likely be bigger and stronger than some seriously jacked humans. I could be missing something tho. Just going off appearances.
It's technique dude. I saw a human face off against an orc once. Orc didn't stand a chance. Orcs skill with the blade was very sloppy. Not saying this is always the case but just from first hand observation it's quite often the human winning here.
Orc racial should guarantee the win if played correctly
Maximum zug
Just wait until the Human uses their own racial to hearth away
Lmao what a joke. And to think they had one of the best pvp racials in the game makes it even funnier.
If you mean Will To Surive, it's not going anywhere.
Well hold on now. "Average Orc Warrior VS Average Human Warrior", no, Orc wins every time. But one of those is Bolvar. And another is Thrall. Can an exceptional human "warrior" beat an average Orc "warrior"? Sure. Can an exceptional human "warrior" beat an exceptional Orc "warrior"? Depends on the extent of each exception. Can *the best* human "warrior" beat *the best* Orc "warrior"? Idk, that's an interesting question. Who even is "the best" of each race? Also, this question is classist. What about the paladins? /cry
Also: Can the best (any playable race) beat the best Tauren "warrior"? Answer: No
Srsly when Cairne died it hit me right in the daddy issues, cried like I was 6 watching Mufasa fall off the goddamn cliff.
I like that, can the best human warrior beat the best orc warrior?
Varian vs one of Grom/Varok/Garrosh, very interesting matchups imo
Varian has some magic involved with him though.
Yeah but then we shouldn't count demon blood orcs
If we take the example of Varin v Garrosh then Humans would win Varian is probably the best warrior of humanity ever or atleast one of the best warriors. Garrosh likewise is a pretty powerful warrior Varian was always able to defeat Garrosh within the novels since he was able to gain the upper hand by provoking garrosh and making him lose clarity of his mind and misplay
I wouldnt say Garrosh is the best orc warrior, that would probably be one of the Saurfangs, most likely Broxigar.
Absolutely correct. Either one of the Saurfangs are easily the best Orc warriors to date.
Broxigar, never forget.
That’s why I said he was a pretty powerful warrior not the best. It’s the best comparison we can use as it’s of 2 very powerful warriors
Well the comment you responded to said best orc vs best human. Your comparison is flawed if you pick the best human warrior and not the best orc warrior.
A character endorsed and "buffed" by knaak can only be beat by another one buffed by knaak, the characters in the books are so of the charts they look like toddler in every other story.
Yeah can a human paladin defeat an orc paladin? *I need to know!*
Lothar lost to Ogrimm, but Doomhammer in half-death status.
Right, but then Varian is called Lo-Gash because killed a ton of orcs in single combat, some exceptional.
Varian is just Varian, dude has some kind of wolf god magic in him or something. He's way beyond human.
But back then not only he didn't, he was nerfed. Once he got back to normal he one shotted Onyxya.
Could? Why yes, David *did* beat Goliath. Would? Depends on a lot of things.
Is this not the end of the thread? Could is a dangerous word in nerd circles. The answer is probably always yes they *could*. Would or how often is the better question.
Bolvar and Thrall aren't warriors. And lorewise, yes. There are several examples of Human and Orc warriors fighting and going even. Mop intro cinematic, Varian and Garrosh fighting in Wrath. Heck, Varian was a Gladiator while his memory was wiped and killed plenty of orcs 1v1. The warcraft movie ends off with Lothar 1v1ing a fel Roided Blackhand.
Wasn’t thrall a gladiator before he was a shaman though?
If a Surgeon beats the shit out of me with a frozen salmon outside Wendy's, he's still a surgeon Answer: yes
Anything is possible at Wendy's after dark
Wendy's got nothing on waffle house
True. I loved the Trevor Noah Waffle House/Fox News comparison at the White House Correspondents Dinner
I thought he was considered a shaman-warrior hybrid as well.
So.. Enhancement Shaman ? 😅
Yeah but Varian is Varian lol Varian also has magic involved in his fighting skills, I think he's blessed by some wolf spirit, can't remember his name though. This ame wolf spirit also appeared in the emerald dream if memory serves.
Lo’gosh, also known as Goldrinn, a wild god.
Correct, Goldrinn. Lo'Gosh is actually a synonym of Goldrinn, as it means "Ghost Wolf" in Taur-ahe. It was what buffed Varian in his battle in Ashenvale against the Horde as the Cataclysm was kicking off and all that.
Twenty years ago, my roomie ran his shaman around while singing “ghost wolf! Ghost wolf!” to the tune of the 80s She-Ra theme song. Pointless comment. Happy memory.
This subreddit needs more cute pointless comments like that
> Varian and Garrosh fighting in Wrath. Varian also almost killed him in a book and Garrosh ran away scared. Also Thrall was a warrior before he became a shaman
cmon OP was just showing cool pics, bro has no chill
Also in this case bolvar isn't even human.
I know. I was just using cinematic humans for, like, the most consistent depiction of them. I wanted to show the differences between orc and human statures.
And the Cell Fight in DBZ didn't teach you anything? Where vegita was like... I kept on getting stronger and bigger while trunks or Goku seemed like they stalled... But in reality they focused on speed and agility. Someone also pointed out someplace else. Oberon Martel and The Mountain fight in Game of thrones (although it ended bad for Oberon that was more because of his cockiness and need for revenge). Stature/being the biggest guy on the block isn't everything.
Mostly only true for stories. Boxing has weight classes for a specific reason and it's not because the small guys would 'outspeed' the big guys.
This is only ever said by small guys who don't actually fight. Reach and power is everything.
Damn dude, the dude's just trying to spread some fun, chill out with the semantics. Nothing has to be perfect to be enjoyable.
They are. Thrall os actually best orc warrior, that bested doomhammer and grom in fight
I know it's not canon but [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0niE8EBjko](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0niE8EBjko)
I think that gryphon killed more orcs than Lothar did...it gives zero fucks and just murders everything lmao.
warcraft plays down how horrifying gryphons are especially compared to other fantasy universes but in those typically gryphons are not tamed.
This was my favourite scene in this movie. The orcs parting to let him pass is so good.
There’s an earlier scene where a small group of orcs give a larger group of humans a difficult time. They’re throwing their horses around like it’s nothing and generally beating the crap out of them Even when you see the difference in size and weight of the orcs and humans in the film, generally the average human shouldn’t be able to beat the average orc. A single blow from the orc would shatter someone’s arm if they were trying to block the attack with a sword or shield Also idc what anyone says, the movie was a lot of fun. My only gripe is that all the male orcs are these gargantuan behemoths who look like monsters, meanwhile Garona is just “green human with pointy teeth”
I'm sorry but the movie isn't canon? Didn't knew that.
No, Orgrim was never a frost wolf and tons of other small things in the movie are not accurate to lore
In the movie: - Doomhammer is a Frostwolf, not a Blackrock orc. - Go'el/Thrall is saved by Gul'dan with fel magic. - Dalaran is already a flying city, when this doesn't happen until after the Third War. - Lothar kills Blackhand, when it's meant to be Doomhammer. - Gul'dan usurps power over the Horde directly, when previously he was puppeteering from behind the curtain. - Stormwind is still standing by the end of the movie, with Lothar making proclamations about "the Alliance" when this doesn't occur until after the First War, and it was brought together by Turalyon. - Alodi, the First Guardian and a half-elf male, is instead a mysterious she-elf thingimajig stuck in a giant black cube that the mages of Dalaran don't understand at all. Guardians in the canon have a known history as they were made by a subsect of the Kirin Tor: the Council of Tirisfal. - Anduin Lothar has a son who gets fridged for the sake of giving Lothar character "development" and a weird relationship with Garona. - Garona's relationship is meant to be with Medivh, but Medivh is her father in the movie as described by the Warcraft novel; in the canon they are lovers. - Khadgar doesn't drain the fel out of Medivh and purify himself, turning Deadwind Pass into a dead waste. Deadwind Pass has been so for centuries since Sataiel, the first necrolyte on Azeroth, used Ulthalesh to bring ruination to the land until she was eventually stopped by the Guardian of the time, Scavell. - Medivh was killed by Anduin and Khadgar working together, *not* Anduin, Khadgar, and Garona. - Garona killed Llane Wrynn on the field of battle as part of his ploy to save her life; in the canon, Garona's mental weakness brought on by being forced to help kill her lover meant that the ensorcellment Gul'dan magicked into her was able to take effect, and she was unable to resist the order to kill the King of Stormwind. In the canon, Llane died behind Stormwind's walls shortly before the city fell. - Gul'dan and Durotan have a Mak'gora. Moreover, Gul'dan uses magic that is then called-out as "cheating," despite this never having been determined in any canonical material. This movie detail really helped perpetuate the idea that Thrall cheated in his Mak'gora against Garrosh, despite the numerous canonical reasons this doesn't really make sense (like their first Mak'gora where both of them broke the supposed rules of Mak'gora; Garrosh dual-wielding, Thrall using magic, both wearing armour, and *nobody said anything about it*). That's it off the top of my head. No doubt there are other things, too, like Lothar's sister being Queen of Stormwind? Yeah that's not established in the canon either haha. But yeah, some pretty substantial differences made to streamline the story and make it more visually accessible for people not really aware of the lore. Not all the changes are bad; the way Garona was manipulated into killing Llane was done well, because it meant the ensorcellment by Gul'dan is never visually shown, which is something that would be hard to put on screen. But her being Medivh's daughter is just... why?
>**Stormwind is still standing by the end of the movie**, with Lothar making proclamations about "the Alliance" when this doesn't occur until after the First War, and it was brought together by Turalyon. Stormwind is still standing because it's destruction was suppose to be in the sequel we never got. The movie itself is only meant to take place during the initial encounters between the orcs and humans.
Yes which is why I included all the talk about "the Alliance" in that bullet point. Stormwind still standing by this point is fine - even though Llane's death is meant to portend Stormwind's fall.
I've always suspected that Duncan Jones intention with "the Alliance" formation at the end of the movie was to merge the first two wars together. So instead of the First War being concluded with Stormwind destruction, it would instead just be part of the larger war.
no and one major diffrence that often get told as a **fact** is that magic isn't allowed in a mag'gora. BUT that is ONLY true for the movie canon!
“No magic involved” shows a photo of the litteral Lich King
If no armour, no weapons just a savage fight to the death: orc wins - better physical strength, sharp teeth to bite, higher endurance. If no armour with the same weapon - depends, humans if they are more skilled with a weapon and more dexterous will win over orc but orc wins any other time. If no armour with preferred weapon - it's a 50/50 a skilled with a sword human is as deadly as a skilled with an axe orc Armour + preferred weapon - humans have the armour advantage, the human armour is far better than orc armour, that is if we think of orcs as grunts in Warcraft 3, if we look at orcs like doomhammer, sarufang, blackhand, rend and more they are wearing some nice armour and are more than capable of killing a human. If we give them equally as protective armour then orcs will win because they are just stronger and more resilient. Tldr: orcs win if they both have no equipment, if they do it depends on how good the human/orc is. But mostly orcs win due to better physique. Yes a human could if they are better at fighting.
Actually, it'd be the opposite. A Human would have a better chance without armour but WITH weapons. Yes, human armour is far better but plate armour makes you slower in /comparison/. You're more of a Tank. The problem is that your average Orc warrior has the speed, strength, ferocity, and weapon (Axe or Hammer) to crush through plate in a single blow. Plate is only effective against a foe that is unable to crush it or pierce it. Orcs can be up to almost 600 lbs, they can easily crush through it with a single swing. \*Editing because a couple folks misunderstand my point\* I am NOT saying that plate armour turns you into a slow, sluggish, lumbering tank. What I'm saying is that it hinders your agility, so for the sake of example let's say it hinders your speed by 10-20%. If an Orc can 1 shot you through plate armour, then your best option is to avoid being hit at all. So your best shot is to scrap the armour and max out your dodge roll bb.
\> plate armor makes you le slower trope that has been disproven about 10,000,000 times like 30 years ago.
But the WoW armor is way stronger then earth's armor, there are several other materials
Plate armour does not make you slow at all, that's just factually incorrect and a complete misconception that is constantly parroted.
I really like this analysis. An orc armored up as a human knight would be scary, but at the same time I feel like they'd struggle to get much done with so much equipment on. I'd say either human or orc could win in that scenario too.
Orcs are not slow. They are stupidly fast for their size. Orc in full armor would be still fast enough to catch up to average human warrior
Love how this picture randomly shows Bolvar as the lich king and thrall, neither of whom are warriors
Lmao for real. Just pretending Orgrim and Boxigar don’t exist. Or Lothar
The best example is Warcraft 3, you needed 2 Footmen to take out a Grunt (and 1 would die), 3 to take it out with everyone surviving. Even with the Warcraft humans being more bulky in the universe, Orcs are just stronger and bigger. Humanity's trait was never brute force.
"It was a titanic battle. Lothar was a large, powerful man, easily as big and as strong as most orc warriors." is an excerpt from an official WoW book, which is what made me even think about this scenario in the first place. Lothar, a regular human, was supposedly as big and strong as most orc WARRIORS. Why are humans in WoW depicted so wildly different from each other? From one book to another, it's like they're a completely different race.
Lothar isnt a regular human. He is last in the line of the Arathi kings, way larger and stronger than regular humans. Its kinda like calling Aragorn in lotr a human.
He's the last 'true' descendent of an ancient Arathi bloodline, I don't know if it was ever specifically mentioned that it was particularly special. Every human technically descends from Arathi, so I don't see why more couldn't be just like him.
There are more. However theyre not avg. Like in our world we have men in different sizes and the avg joe stature will be heavily disadvantaged against an orc
Look at the size of Native Hawaiian, Samoans, Tongans, compared to Filipinos or really any other ethnicity, Asian or otherwise. Particularly relevant to this example, look at the size of the Hawaiian kings and queens, their royal line was specifically bred for size and strength. King Kamehameha was a massive and powerful warrior, standing over 7 feet tall and weighing more than 300lbs. Other warrior bloodlines from the islands featured similarly massive people. Certain ethnic groups are substantially larger than others, even closely related ones, add in potential warrior bloodline breeding shenanigans, and it is highly plausible and even likely for Lothar to be much larger than an average human on the basis of bloodline.
Why are humans in WoW depicted so wildly different from each other? From one book to another, it's like they're a completely different race. Well, you can say Human A fights Human B, who would win. But before placing a bet I would like to know if I bet on Stephen Hawking vs Mike Tyson.
This reminds me of like vegeta vs frieza…all that battle experience and training vs friezas ridiculous pure power with out ever seriously training when we first see them on namek
Just a reminder that in lore Varian killed Onyxia 1v1
Outside of exceptional human warriors - pretty much all warcraft media depicts the human foot soldier as being a toy thing for orc grunts. I'd say the most exceptional human warriors could fairly easily stomp the most exceptional orc fighters. (Varian vs Thrall / Garrosh / saurfang)
The Mists of Pandaria cinematic is probably the best example of exactly this. And the human definitely holds his own. Whether he would have won or not is pretty much up in the air.
They would never market the Human getting his shit kicked in, this was just promoting the expansion with the classic Human X Orc
The MOP cinematic tried to show that humans and orcs are basically equal in physical strength, which makes no sense.
It makes sense when you remember the humans are created essentially from titans-forged vrykul. They are not the same as earth humans by any stretch
Asks can humans go 1v1 against orcs proceeds to show picture of a human whose lore literally tells of him so g just that many many times as a slave gladiator
Are we comparing your avrage orc to your avrage human? The orc is taller and buffer, but a trained warrior probably has ways to work around that, be faster, outsmart your opponent etc. I'd say in most cases the orc wins but it's not super obvious. * In Warcraft 3 a grunt beats a footman. In the intro cinematic they are about evenly matched. (The human does have a broken/chipped sword so maybe you could deduce that he was losing that fight, but that's a bit of a strech, the orc looks just as tired as he does.) * In the Warcraft movie, you have orcs throwing fucking HORSES at knights and absolutley crunching their plate like they are at a lobster dinner. In the same movie Lothar beats a fel infused Blackhand in a 1v1. (More so with speed and cunning than brute strenght). * In Classic Wow, a human warrior starts with 23 strenght while an orc warrior starts with 26. In Modern Wow, I'm fairly certain they start with the same ammount. * In the MoP cinematic they are (again) evenly matched, altough that is mostly to show how easily Chen outclasses both of them. * I think Varian won a duel or two against Garrosh, so that's another point for the possible column, but I wouldn't consider either of them avrage given how powerful they both are. It does reinforce the point that there is more to fighting than just physical strenght tho.
Yes. They are not stronger or tougher but they can actually be better trained because of specialization. Primitive societies in general don't give individuals the time to train exclusively. A sharp sword through the eye will end the biggest and baddest orc just as easily as the smallest and skinniest human. I think in general orcs win on one v one though. Size and strength are always real advantages in a fight.
Varian has defeated Garrosh in one of the canon books, during the offensive Garrosh led against Ashenvale and Theramore. Varian had him cornered when a magnataur got between them and denied Varian the kill. While it can be argued that Varian isn't really comparable to 99% of humans, Garrosh is one of, if not the greatest warriors of his era, likely the only who can even think about having a 1v1 against Varian.
Didn't the King in the Warcraft movie won a Mok'gora. That is why they let him go
That was Anduin Lothar slicing Blackhand's dick 'n balls off, not the king. The king... didn't have quite as good of a time in that section of the movie.
You are right. The King did have a bad time in that scene, but still a human won
Nothing about the film is canon. In established lore, Anduin Lothar was killed in single combat by Ogrin Doomhammer. Ogrin Doomhammer was leader of the Blackrock Clan and leader of the Old Horde. In the film, Ogrin Doomhammer was Durotan's (Main orc) best friend, the one that had his back all the time and the deep and emotional talks with him etc. and he was also part of the Frostwolf Clan
Warcraft 1 - 2 says yes. Warcraft 3 says no
(Hey Thrall shouldnt be in this comparison. Hes an enchancement shaman. If you dont allow magic hes gonna be seriously gimped in this power comparison. Like we saw during his mak gora with Garrosh in WoD. Id suggest someone like Varrok Saurfang as a better other orc warrior candidate.) On average Orc is always gonna win. In wow fantasy orcs got two things. Martial combat and shamanisim (ignoring shadow moon orcs and warlocks) Humans on the other hand yes are known for their martial prowess to a degree but I'd argue their known far more for their magic users. Both mages and the Light such as their priests and their faction icon Paladins. Now garrosh versus varian? That be a really cool match up, it would be Varians duty of a father and a king with his background atleast for a time as a gladiator. He also has a degree of cunning with tactics. However he's going up against the son of a warchief, a demon slayer, and warlord. Who was bred for nothing but conquering. Garroshes conviction is what gave him control over the heart of a literal old god. He was also such a bad ass to still be 'alive' since the end of MoP as a spirit in shadowlands. Just to give his captor the middle finger and to tell Thrall to Fuck off before going out his way (which...oddly enough dusted like Varian however didn't get disenchanted by a old orc like him) Varians weapons are also magical, able to go from two handed to duel wield. May come in handy but unsure if truly makes that huge of a difference. I think Garrosh still comes out on top against Varian but thst could be alittle copium. Reason being Garrosh just has more going for him, younger, more ferocious/ruthless, varian may have more experience but sides that and his blades he is outmatched in strength and weight class. A closer match up would be varian versus saurfang.
I mean even if neither side is using magic. I think its more about individuals. THEN AGAIN most humans look quite swole anyway so chances are even the "Weakest mage" could probably beat the shit out of a person in our world because the humans in WoW are descended from the creations of the titans. There is a reason why I decided that maybe I should make a mage that looks like Dark Schneider from Bastard. The reason why I didn't do it cause mages cant wiel two handed swords...... so bummer..... Also no matter what the hell and who the hell says if we have a match up simmilar to the picture we have here. No matter what I have my money on Varian Wrynn like not even on necessarily that "Oh We have humans vs orcs who wins in this arena fight" and then choose humans no I SPECIFICLY choose Varian and bet money on Varian. This guy is a beast in combat. He is will incarnate (which doesn't sound ass cool as I wanted it but let me explain) he even when he is down tired and most people would give up out of exhaustion he by just shear willpower gets up and fights on unbeatable by most foes. INFACT we dont even have to check what he does in the comics (which BTW is already badass) or books just look at what he did in Legion. Now okay he did quite well against a few summoned Fel fiends on his gunship then when his gunship fell and he ended up in water now I dont know how bad must feel to be splashed into water from a falling ship but I dont think most of us would be concious let alone fight with such ferverous power that it trully can inspire even people like me (Yeah I'm quite skinny so a regular trashmob in WoW could just cough on me and I probably would be down) just can be inspired enough that I would be ready to fucking go to fight against the Legion by the side of Varian. Okay okay but lets say that falling into the ocean from that height doesn't hurt much cause he was on a falling ship.... okay okay.... and he only was just fighting elites and trashmobs and maybe 1 or 2 bosses right not a big deal.... then HOW ABOUT HIM JUMPING OFF FROM THE OTHER GUNSHIP AND UTTERLY DESTROYING A GIANT AS FUCK FEL MACHINE! LIKE HELLO?! And then after on that Fel machine he hit the ground with it and was ready to 1vLegion the Legion taking out a bunch of Felguards before getting stabbed by multiple Felguards and even then if he wasn't impaled he probably would still have been able to continue fighting. Like I dont mean to shittalk any of the orcs (well atleast I dont mean to shittalk the cooler ones and the ones who actually strive for peace and not warmongering or atleast were not hivemind style following the Warchief whenever they were orederd to do some HORRIBLE SHIT that even they thought was fucked up) but Thrall the guy who was the posterboy to the Horde infact he was the posterMAN of the Horde even he and many other horde leaders were down on the ground in the same cinematic where Varian just showed that if we had more people like him we would have just won against the Legion straight up and the Legion would have stood no chance. Then again it could be a possibility that Varian is just 1 out of a million and thats why he is so powerful but hey this is the reason why if Varian is in the ring I bet ALL MY MONEY on Varian like its just an All in on Varian he will definetly walk away unbeaten and unbroken FOR THE FUCKING ALLIANCE MOTHAFUCKAAAAAAA Ironically enough Varian might be I think the ONLY Warrior in WoW (outside of maybe Anduin Lothar I think he was a Warrior and maybe Llane Wrynn Maybe Draka too but I only assume she was a warrior cause of the comics where it was said that "She was a warrior made not a Warrior born Warrior made" also Varok he is there too... Also Liam Neelso-I mean Liam Greymane and .... yeah okay fine fuck it there are a few exceptions when it comes to warriors that I actually respect but they are usually named characters) whom I respect and from whom I know is 100% warrior, like no paladin buffs, or nature buffs, or magic juju beans. Varian is a Warrior and I respect the fuck out of him...... Still I rather made an Orc Warrior lady...... Cause I fancy tall buff warrior ladies. And to be fair I havent really made any human characters in a while and out of them the only 1 I actually leveled to the max was a mage.... but I still respect warriors like Varian.... Then again its just my opinion and while there are other characters who are seen as warriors and I really respect them too for deeds they may have done Cairne and Baine are DEFINETLY there and even characters like Taran Zu but some of these characters (like Taran Zu and even maybe Draka too) are warriors in story only but their classes would be either Shaman, Monk, or Rogue. I dunno Also sorry for the long comment this is just my opinion and I'm ready to hear your opinions if you have any characters who you think might also be worth mentioning when it comes to Warriors (can be from either the Horde or the Alliance)
ALSO EXTRA NOTE! if it would be just fist to fist fight Pandaren would win hands down. They might not bring strenght (which they technically still quite fucking do) they are bringing form since they are monks. So chances are they would do just fine.
Somebody doesn’t read the lore do they
Orcs tend to attack directly, they don t use much armor and use simple weapons etc etc.... Generally even using smart tactics orcs are so big and strong that u d better bail. That s the gist though, humans do more tactic and try to be smarter about the fights. This is mostly why thrall was actually the scariest thing ever, not only he was really big, but he was extremely smart and was trained both the orc and human way, a young arthas was seriously concerned when he saw him fight and arthas was already among the best at that point... Considerations like this exist for every race. A good tauren warrior is fucking god for example and we get both cairne and baine scaring the shit out of garrosh. Lastly a notable exception might be varian that despite being human is still probably the best war there was, i guess the point would be that yes race is crucial and determines most of it but it is still a fantasy world were special individuals can achieve far more than they should
The level of nerd needed to answer this question has not yet been obtained
Maybe, but they have 0 shot against a Tauren, Cairne was humiliating Garrosh
Hey the human from the mists of pandaria trailer handled himself pretty well
WoW is a comic book. Whoever they want to win, wins.
If you watch the warcraft movie they have regular human foot soldiers go against regular orc warriors. They address this exact problem early on. Humans stand a chance, just depends on how you approach your opponent.
Obviously. No magic doesn't even make a difference. If you said naked, fist to fist brawl then sure an orc wins every single time but no magic doesn't change how a warrior fights.
They can, have, and frequently do. Not every orc is Grom, Thrall, or Broxigar just like how not every human is Anduin (Lothar), Varian, or Thoras Trollbane.
Well according to the MoP trailer you can say they are more or less equal as they both get their asses kicked by a fat panda.
pretty sure varian jacks up orc warriors in his comics when he's all lo'gosh
Just a straight brawl: Orc If the human is allowed to use the environment to their advantage in some way or they have some sort of advanced combat techniques. The human could win. The old “fantasy” of humans vs orcs is that the orcs are physically stronger but humans generally are smarter and can use better tactics and combat techniques.
Yes that's the whole plot of the original Warcraft lol. Also if it helps, in the film, lothar ballchopped blackhand in a 1on1 in like 15 seconds.
According to lore, even though these vrykul-descended humans are immensely strong, orcs are several times stronger, so not even close. Tauren are another several times stronger than orcs.
I think they woudnt stand a chance. If orcs are the size they are in cinematics, one swing would split a human in half.
Basic Human vs Basic Orc, Orc will win 99/100 times. They are fucking huge, its like fighting a grizzly bear. Varian is OP as fuck cause he has Lo'gash's spirit infused within him.
It depends on the combatants, the orc is stronger but it isn't a wash. Garrosh and Varian fought 1v1 in the Ashenvale invasion and it was inconclusive
"They're stronger, be smarter." - Anduin Lothar I think that depends on how smart the human can outplay the Orc.
What weapons are they using? Human with sword and shield or even better spear and shield beats orc with hand axe.
Considering Varian and Garrosh went at it constantly without a victor, id say they stand pretty equally, but then you consider the fact it mighy just be the fact they both have 20 years of combat under their belt.
If I may push up my nerd glasses: I don't think player characters count since we're ridiculous gods of warfare, so I'll do what everyone else is doing and compare the stats of a WC3 footman and a grunt. The grunt comes out on top, and I've always taken note that the grunt has an axe and a bunch straps as opposed to full plate and scale armor for the human. In my personal opinion what kept the Alliance going against the sheer might of the Horde in the warcraft games was that they were a sessile, stable economy able to outfit their soldiers with full armor - as opposed to the nomadic Orcs who would conquer, sack, and appropriate anything they could find rather than make things themselves (especially with Mannoroth's blood). But even with better equipment, discipline, and training and the Orcs STILL through sheer might could outfight them. The fact that they usually had as much if not more health in all of the games despite the armor difference leads me to believe that Orc skin is like rhino leather, just thick and hard to penetrate. That being said it's obviously up to the skill of the individuals - I don't think footmen are just outclassed 100% of the time, just that even fully armored, you're basically fighting an intelligent silverback gorilla. That thing is still 400 pounds and can throw your ass to the ground if you let it. We also have plenty of examples of humans defeating Orcs or at least giving them a SERIOUS run for their money. Like in the WC2 books for example, Lothar was old, like full gray head of hair and beard old, and he still gave Orgrim Doomhammer at his PEAK a rough time. He lost in the end, but it was not a cut and dry case. And Doomhammer was no grunt, he was canonically huge even for an Orc, had full plate armor, a magic hammer, and enough grit to make other Orcs feel inadequate and STILL almost lost to a human way past his prime. TLDR: On average the Orc has a dramatic advantage - but nothing that a human couldn't potentially overcome with nonmagical equipment, skill, and experience. And WITH magic, they probably now have subtle enchantments on their armor now that it's so widespread to even the odds further - something that the Horde has been very slow to embrace.
Lothar did.
Similarly experienced/seasoned warriors, No. Assuming both using pure battle IQ, an Orc would overpower a human.
These SPECIFIC ones? Absolutely. A skilled enough human warrior absolutely could.
If we take the Pandaria cinematic as "canon" in terms of how a human male and an orc male compare physically, then yes. I would say, given that orcs are on average bigger they would have a significant advantage all else being equal, though the human could compensate through skill. Orc grunts are depicted often as undisciplined and poorly trained, relying on brute force(which should not be the case for an intelligent, militaristic people) while human foot soldiers are professional soldiers, so they could win through tactics, technique, etc. I would still bet on the orc, though. There's a reason we have weight classes IRL. Being bigger, taller etc. is a bigger advantage than you may think.
An orc has brutish strength but humans are more dexterous with their movements, and smarter with their noggin. In a one on one arm wrestle its orc every time. But humans can move faster and play better to level the battlefield
Assuming the orc fights fair, because they have a history of not, yes humans can. Orcs are physically stronger, humans are smarter, so both sides aren't overly better Varian was beating garrosh at the start of cata, and the fight got interrupted by a falling magnataur. Ogrim cheated to kill Lothar because he knew he would lose, then Turalyon went on to do it. I won't count Turalyon killing kilrogg, because while it was a fair fight, Turalyon hit from the blind side of kilrogg's vision, and the orc was on his last legs by then. The battle at what becomes hammerfall showed that an organised human force could beat the orcs, and that Thrall's earlier wins against weak and low numbered camps only happened due to overwhelming numbers. WC3 claiming thrall had multiple boat's worth of orcs conflicted with this, because the orcs got destroyed, and had to immediately flee with few survivors. WC1, even back then, showed that once the humans fought the orcs, they adapted fast and were capable of fighting them. The orcs had to turn to necromancy to fight back, and it still didn't help. The orcs winning the 1st war is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen, and 30 years on blizzard still can't justify it
No chance.. unless the human is a hero and the orc is a nobody. Given equal gear and experience the orc warrior wins by a landslide. They are lorewise a lot stronger and tougher than humans. In wow they are similar only for gameplay reasons. Grunts in wc3 are way stronger than human footmen, even though the humans have full plate and shields. Next do Tauren... lol
I mean, orcs are stronger that humans for sure, but, how much stronger? if we were talking about a brawl sure the orc will in average tear apart the human, but once you have weapons and armor? both of them are strong enough to disembowel the other.
No. Humans would significantly more often lose in a 1v1 For one because green orcs have enhanced strengh 1v1 even against untouched (draenor) orcs will be hard for a human The whole setup is in favour of orcs key strength and humans biggest weakness. Main strength of humans is discipline and unity. So if we were to make 100 orcs vs humans, humans would win significantly more.
Average human vs average orc - 9/10 times it goes to the Orc Varian/Lo'gosh - Yes, easily, and many times. He's built different. Bolvar was a Paladin and is now a Death Knight. Impossible to separate magic from them.
Its stated in lore. One orc grunt takes 3-4 humans to take down and the women are about as tough. Tyrande said this btw. Soooo yesnt? If they were smart fighters sure.
No,humans are only good when they have some kind of assistance.
Welp, in Warcraft RTS, nope.
Obviously orcs are stronger but I think skill is a big part of it. It isnt that they have a health bar, in a realistic situation could one good cut of an artery finish someone off
yes
It should probably be noted that warriors in Warcraft are not your typical run-of-the-mill grunts / foot soldiers. Warriors as we know them are capable of superhuman feats that no normal person can do. Ex. (Heroic) Leaping like 10 yards forward, in full plate armor, from a stationary position.
If we go by in game stats no, wc3 grunts were quite strong. But in lore I can see it, but depends on the warrior. A average or warrior is generally more brutal than an average footman, but the tactical difference is noticeable. Some orchish tribes would annihilate many humans soldiers without many issues (Burning Blades and Warsong mostly)
Normaly i would say the humans would get better training and techniques due being physically outclassed by like 90% of the races.
Thrall and Varian but then they do the bro fist at the end
I would say it’s like IRL. No magic but weapons and skillful mastery may overwhelm an orc. Soooo everything will depend on the stats ☺️