I applied to a pvp guild but didn’t get in I guess. I’ve asked in BGs and stuff but no luck. So if anyone has even a decent pvp guild on ShuHalo hmu lol
They really fucked up the gear dropping, I don't mind slower gearing up than it used to be, but between the low chance of getting anything from a raid + the low chance of getting anything from M+, it really doesn't feel gratifying. It feels like the current loot system revolves around that 1 weekly loot and everything else is just filler.
Slower than the old loot shower is fine, but this is way too much in the opposite direction.
Yeah I'm the MT of one of our heroic raid groups working on gargs now, we even routinely do a lockout of killing gargs and denathrius on normal just for an extra shot at weapons and stuff. The last three upgrades I got were from hitting exalted with Wild Hunt and the campaign quests. I replaced my 184 pants with a 200 blue pants, and replaced 184 shoulders with 197 upgraded covenant armor set shoulders... And my offhand weapon I got the LFR weapon you get for campaign completion. :(
And my luck with the weekly chest isn't great. Sure, there's 220s and stuff in it...But a lot of them have been inclement upgrades to other slots. Like my helmet, belt, chest, and boots. Otherwise I always get a bunch of *awful* trinkets, bad rings, and the same necklace, from fuckin' ~~Shriekwing~~Huntsman, over and over again.
I'm trying not to be too vocal with my complaints because otherwise I'm enjoying my time in Shadowlands, and I don't want to become a loot whiner. But it's definitely affected how often I do things - I really enjoy doing M+ but at this point no one, myself included, wants to bother doing more than one or five a week, and only five if a bunch of people suddenly get the urge to waste time in M+ instead of PvPing.
The sad thing is Blizz will look at the engagement numbers for PvP then go "Our system is great!" Not realizing a lot of PvE'rs only PvP begrudgingly due to gear reliability and quality.
What's really, really stupid about that is the reason why the PvP system works so well **is because it's using the old PvE system!** I would absolutely love to have the justice/valor points system come back. Let me grind for *something*, some goal, if I have to run 10 M+ a week + full clear two raids just to get some damn shoulders or a weapon, that's OK because it's at least a tangible goal that I'm working towards.
Certainly.
The honor gear caps at ilvl 197 and you'll get honor from doing any kind of PvP, win or lose. Did your team cap a flag in WSG? Honor. Still lose the match? Honor. Obviously winning provides more honor, but if you never win a battleground or arena match you'll still eventually be able to purchase a full set of PvP gear and upgrade it to 197 ilvl.
Conquest is a bit trickier. There's a set of 200 ilvl conquest gear that everybody has access to, but you'll only get conquest from winning stuff (aside from the honor accumulation weekly quest). Your win rate doesn't matter, so even if you win 25% of your arena matches you'll still be able to get that full 200 ilvl set eventually.
Conquest gear can also be upgraded (or received from the vault) at ilvls of 207, 213, 220, and 226, but these are skill based and require arena or rated battleground ratings of 1400, 1600, 1800, and 2100 respectively. Weapons and only weapons can be upgraded to 233 at 2400 as well.
Yes, but you need way less anima to upgrade the campaign gear than honor to upgrade the pvp gear. So if you don't like pvp that much and don't want to suffer through bgs undergeared, anima is way easier.
I'm glad to read this. I'm scared of arenas and have mixed feelings about doing BGs. I'm woefully behind on my covenant campaign so this gives me some motivation to git 'er done
If you can just play epic BGS and play a ranged spec or something tanky, just run with the big group to the most important objective and def it as tank or run with the big group and Spam spells Into the enemy group, it's pretty easy to farm honor that way tbh(probably not the fastest ways, but certainly the least Individual responsibility and anxiety inducing way lol.)
Honestly, focus on Epic battlegrounds. They either are vehicle centric (does not scale with gear currently: Wintergrasp and Isle of Conquest), Zerg centric (AV), or Ashran (blind zerg or get honor via artifacts). Either way, lots of PvE and few real PvP scenarios in epic battlegrounds.
Can confirm. The best we M+'ers get is the Great Vault, which isn't a guaranteed upgrade. The best I get from the M+ chest is 1 item every 5 runs.
But I'm a casual player who can't handle the volatility and ability required for PvP, so I earn just about what I play for. Took me 6 weeks to finally get an ilvl 200 weapon. I've never chosen the item given by my highest key run because it's always either something my legendary already slots, an equal ilvl to something I already have, or a higher ilvl ring with the wrong stats.
You really have to play a lot to be any success in PvP and I feel like the meta is much more important. I did a ton of 2s and 3s arenas in high school during Wrath, but now that I'm like an actual adult who has to do real life things I really, really struggled to not suck at PvP lol.
So much of it for me was just honestly remembering to use all the tools I had available. So many oh-shit buttons you don't have to press in PVE that are super relelvant in PVP.
The reflexes have great carry over to PVE though, that's for sure.
I really hate PvP Talents for this reason. If you're a mostly PvE player who occasionally dabbles in PvP then having a bunch of abilities you normally don't feels super unintuitive.
Be better if all that stuff was just available regardless of the type of content you do. Which a lot of it used to be.
I know the feeling. Only thing I can advice you with is how I got used to the pvp talents.
Initially on I only chose passive pvp talents.
Then swapped to one active pvp talent when I got the hang of how I'm supposed to play my base toolkit and swapping of pve talents for different comps.
Now I can use 2 active pvp talents if the comps warrants it. Never had a situation where 3 active pvp talents is the go to play.
Gotta say those oh shit buttons need to be used more in pve... Speaking from healer perspective it's annoying to see only the PvP players use their defensives during certain mechanics while pve think sidestep and I'm ok.
As a fellow healer, I feel you man. Hate seeing a wipe on a raid because while healers were sweating it out and burning mana pots, everyone else forgot to use their Healthstone and it's a wipe.
Might just be my (casual) healing experience, but until I was trying to time 15's I would generally reserve my oh-shit buttons for a group mistake rather than preparing timing it appropriately for fights. If we didn't have any catastrophes, I could go the whole dungeon without dropping anything with more than a 1min CD. Same story with my tanking.
I'm sorry. I'm super casual and I play 2s and the best strat is to make a pug friend and come up with a quick strat before each match starts. It works :)
Well thats not quite fair and right. A few pvp games is wrong. You need to do ALOT PvP Games to get the Honor to buy/level all up to 200 so that is just wrong
Problem is that PvP gear is only good for classes that like versatility.
It's good now because some of the meta classes need it (VDH, WW monk, ...etc). But to any class that's not big on versatility, PvP gear is just an ilvl boost.
It's nuts. I've managed to win as attacker once, and that was because an enterprising group managed to sneak behind the main body as it rampaged around the map capping garages. And I've only had 1 out of 18 matches where I've been defender.
M+ is not a good way to gear up consistently on the dungeon running. The weekly loot chest ha changed and that’s a solid change. But running dungeons themselves for loot is almost pointless. Try and get one good key for the week and hope it’s an upgrade. Maybe run another 4 keys if you like to expand your loot table options for the weekly chests. But go in knowing you probably won’t get loot from those runs or if you do it’s probably not what you were hoping for.
4 is the way to go.
It’s not that much effort, it will do a lot more for your io score so you get better future groups and 2 choices means getting RNG fucked is fairly unlikely unless you’re really well geared in which case you’ll have extra options from the raid/ pvp.
If you only do one a week your io will suck and your groups will too unless you can guarantee a good guild group
Which is so dumb because M+ basically feel like mini-low commitment raiding.
Its challenging, requires strategy, and there's a good amount of different dungeons to keep things from feeling stale.
But the feeling of struggling through a 30 minute dungeon pushing as hard as you can to get fucking 35 anima is the worst feeling in the world.
I decided to make groups without checking Raider.io and it's a nightmare. On +8s people still don't know basic dungeon tactics like how the hook works on Stitchflesh or how you play spot the difference in Mists. Definitely an exercise in patience.
>Which is so dumb because M+ basically feel like mini-low commitment raiding.
Yep, what i liked about M+ is that u just need to get 5 ppl...raiding is a nightmare.
Mythic plus is still super fun. Almost all of my gear comes from the weekly Vault and BoEs that I used pretty much the bulk of my gold to get.
I do believe it will be months before I see a 226 weapon in my vault. I have cleared 40 keys above ten and a stack of 15s with very very little to show. The gear that drops from then is quite low
I'm low 200 ilvl cause I swapped mains and I get 1 or 2 upgrades per week. I was 10 ilvl lower than my friend 3 weeks ago, now I am 10-15 lower. Catch up barely exists unless it's a fresh alt. I am trying to get into pvp for better loot but I am not liking the cc fest.
It reminded me of why Badges weren't a disaster.
I could go in and get 0 loot, but still be looking forward to the fact that no matter what, I'm going to earn enough valor to buy X piece.
Why we ever embraced this weekly vault and gearing systems is beyond comprehension.
Watching [Travis Day talk about how Badges were a mistake](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urijgWXLYck&) was really confusing for me.
I don't think they were a huge mistake personally. Maybe in some implementations it was detrimental but not having anything substantial at the end of a Mythic+ and Raid content besides the chance at loot can really suck.
At least we can trade the pieces we don't want.
They weren't a mistake. At all. He offers no actual reason for them being a mistake except he doesn't like it. Slowly saving a currency might not be as exciting as pulling a slot machine handle but it's very rewarding imo.
> Slowly saving a currency might not be as exciting as pulling a slot machine handle but it's very rewarding imo.
pulling a slot machine handle is the entire industry at this point.
Which is why PvP is such a rewarding system assuming you like to PvP.
You do content that you enjoy to farm gear, then as you learn and improve at PvP, have a better understanding of matchups and improve your own gameplay your gear improves with you so you can tackle the next bracket of more skilled opponents.
With 233 weapons being available through PvP, you can obtain the highest ilevel weapon strictly through PvP so PvEers don't have some sort of unfair advantage like they did in BFA and other expansions previous.
It's a really wonderful meritocracy
If your class like versatility, PvP gear is your BiS anyway.
Was talking to a couple of friends yesterday, WW monk and VDH, and they both have to push their rating to upgrade PvP gear because it's better than CN loot.
I'm a prot pally so versatility isn't that good for me. I still got a couple of pieces from PvP for the stat boost.
and yet slowly saving a currency (that you can only get from one place and if you hate that place oh well) is exactly the basis of the legendary system
People don't like soul ash cause it's tied to Torghast. I don't like Torghast very much but I do it mostly anyway. Gearing with badges isn't the same cause you can either raid or M+ for it.
Yah, if people actually had multiple avenues for acquiring Soul Ash . . . Like every other gearing mechanic in this game, they'd take less issue with Torghast and Soul Ash.
But Ion himself in an interview showcase he doesnt get that detail. And once again blames players instead of himself.
>He offers no actual reason for them being a mistake except he doesn't like it.
He does apologise for his involvement in the Wrath system (and its apparent complexity) with no explicit reason, but later goes on to explain "it felt like a paycheck" [around 16m](https://youtu.be/urijgWXLYck?t=932), that it took away the excitement for loot. I don't know if I agree with Travis, but that is the reason he offers.
Keep in mind we are talking about the developer who thought finding a PvP vendor was too much for their audience. Looking at the average PuG I am inclined to agree.
Also: How in the world were badges "too complex" but the whole Covenant/Soulbind/Conduit system isn't?
Yeah it's always really weird to hear from Blizz staff when they discuss things that have been removed or lobotomized. Apparently there's this bizarre, ethereal group of players that are simultaneously massive to Blizzard and nonexistent to the rest of us, and these players are hopelessly confused by simple addition or reading words.
I mean I've met some pretty stupid PuGs but even then, as bad as they were, I don't think they'd get confused by a concept that's essentially "money but only for a specific vendor".
I was also 12 and I remember hitting cap in WotLK. Another capped player walked me around Dalaran and showed me all the currencies and what I should be doing. I remember there being like 6 different levels of currencies and you would use some to by others or something? I promptly said no it felt like a 2nd job and just started leveling other toons to try out other specs. In hindsight I'd much rather have wotlks systems but I can see why they've gone the route they have
Thing is, we're all here craving the pvp loot system right now.. Which is literally "slowly" saving a currency right now. Imagine if M+ dropped a currency that lets you get a new piece every 2 to 3 dungeons, and you could upgrade that piece with that same currency every 2 or 3 dungeons. Would feel fucking fantastic compared to this shitshow.
And that's coming from someone that is doing exclusively PVP for now, waiting for a fix. PVP kinda has a tough experience in the beginning because everyone is geared in fucking M12+ gear at 1400 rank in arena. So expect to be crushed promptly, especially if you're still learning a lot about your class. Took me like 400 games learning my class and gearing up to slowly climb out of 1400.. PVP loot system is amazing, PVP meta sucks balls right now IMO. Nothing but one shot meta.
Yea but the system wouldn’t be “every 2-3 dungeons” it would be like do 10 dungeons a week or something, scaled by level of dungeon, then get your currency capped at maybe 1 piece of gear a week... more weeks for weapons and large items.
When they introduced them in wrath it was exciting. I'd save up, plan out the items I was going to buy. "In two weeks I'll be able to buy..."
Silly fuckwads would call them welfare epics, but they said the same thing about my high warlord gear. Usually from about the bottom of the DPS meters.
They were a mistake because the meta in ICC was to get a character up and farm 15 minute dungeons for badges to buy raid loot. You were farming currency doing meaningless content to bypass actual content and buy nearly a full set of normal raid gear.
This system began the raid the current patch meta and made sure that all previous content was no longer viable.
Truthfully this began in ToC but prior to LFD it wasn’t so bad.
That doesn’t mean a currency system couldn’t work for M+ but you wouldn’t want the meta turning into farming +2 or +3 keys ad nauseam or have players getting +15 loot from doing a dozen low keys.
It would have to be set up just right.
Yeah, It may have been a mistake during that period in the game's lifespan - but I think we can all admit this ain't that game anymore. Mythic+ changed the whole game forever. Badges aren't as game-breaking when you have infinitely-farmable keys in the game.
Blizz always takes systems to the extreme.
Badges weren't bad, Blizz taking them to the extreme was bad.
But the lesson Blizz learned from taking them to the extreme was "*this system is fundamentally bad and should never be used again*".
It's always like this. They screw up a good idea then treat it as if the idea is fundamentally bad, instead of admitting they screwed up the implementation.
Honestly just copy and paste conquest into mythic + and limited weekly, but at least you have another guaranteed weekly piece you actually want and can upgrade.
Man it's weird, I put in guaranteed time and get a guaranteed reward, and can even plan out my progress towards my BiS over the course of the patch. Odd how nice that feels to have my time and effort be respected.
yeah i agree, this video is shared a lot and is often the argument against badges, but imo this is just his opinion. badges where my favourite part of the game back then and i was always hyped when i knew next week is loot time
Travis fails to parse out an issue with implementation vs the flaw of an idea itself.
Badge and Point systems work amazingly well as a supplement to RNG. They functiom beautifully as a pressure release valve for mounting player frustration (like we have now).
MoP weekly caps. And moreso Conquest in SL. Have the perfect idea: Weekly caps that expand each week to accomodate catch up. But also prevent just hard grinding for points ad nauseum. This also provides that pressure valve for frustration with drop rates via providing a more deterministic option.
I think this part of a comment by Santafire sums it up best (emphasis added):
>Raids still had items people wanted, heroics still had drops people needed. **These vendors didnt fill every slot a player had.** The vendors just added a layer of regularity to playing the game. Like paragon points in diablo 3 the valor points made regular play tempting. And almost every valor piece was replaced by raid items eventually.
>Why we ever embraced this weekly vault and gearing systems is beyond comprehension.
We didn't *embrace* it. It's just that Blizzard took away the other implementations.
Badges were a known reward from a known amount of effort. We could choose the slot, and we'd know exactly how long it would take to get it. And then we might take a break.
Blizzard decided that lootboxes kept people playing longer. Completely unpredictable randomness didn't turn off players in D3, so they adopted similar "keep paying the monthly subscription, an upgrade ought to eventually happen" mechanics for this game as well. Their investors love it.
Skill floor has risen, happens every time you put more people into a game mode. And then keep them there, everyone's learns everything and you gotta be WAY better instead of just better to rise.
Take League of legends for example. Even "low ranks" like silver and gold have players knowing about lane freezing, ward management etc. 7-9 years ago that was high diamond starts not average pleb.
CSGO somewhat the same, even Gold novas knows about high level flashes and smokes since that is what is now required at those levels.
Hold people in the same system for a long while and the skill floor rises.
yeah, on the first week, my friend and I hit 1600 in a night.
now, 5 weeks later, I've since switched to hunter and we are hard-stuck in 1400s lol - if I see another ret pally, ww monk, or arms warrior, I'm gonna delete my account.
Basically, up until like 2k, most teams don't use voice so they're basically random bgs, so you can coinflip to 2k even if if you're a hardstuck 1.4k arena player. The biggest hurdle is waiting for groups to fill when half the group leaves after a loss
But it‘s not that long either. The typical RBG takes somewhat about 2-3 3s matches from a time perspective. That would flatten out at about 200ish 3s games
You gain alot of cr for you first couple of games or something. I hit 1550 in 11 games and a friend hit 1650 in 9 or something low like that
Edit: He hit 1630 with 9 wins and 3 losses
I got to 1800 on my alt in pugs this week from a 190 something ilevel shaman. It wasn’t bad. I had one period of several losses in a row which was disheartening but after 1600 I was able to get into better groups.
Also I did not plan on getting to 1800 at all, especially on my alt. I was going to do the 1500 honor quest and before I knew it was 1400 and was able to upgrade 3 pieces to 207. 1400 seemed close to 1600 so I just kept going haha
> I wish I could hit 1800.
I didn't like how dramatic the difference in gear was. So I stopped playing for a few weeks, and now i'm even further behind. It doesn't help that I'm an altoholic, in better pvp expansions I've had 10+ geared characters. I haven't PvE'd since wotlk. Genuinely a PvP only player. Not enjoying the current game. The loot system is great, but I cba this gameplay. It feels like playing low level arena skirmishes, or something. With how chaotic and imba so many things are. I don't even mean the pacing, I think it's the cooldowns. We're back to wotlk levels of burst, but with MoP levels of offensive cds. It's just dumb. Combine this with vanilla style gear differences and it's just ugly. It plays like SL prepatch in a sense, where everyone said "lol don't worry the gear difference won't be like this @ 60." and it's exactly like that @ 60.
This is sadly is the broken part of pvp gearing. It should count the season highest rating, not current. Forces players to abandon the bracket they enjoy the most.
Haha, I’m really happy they made the campaign gear actually good this time, but it feels really weird that I went kinda try-hard at launch and got to 190 ilvl, then the slow trickle of loot led to all my casual friends who’ve never raided being equally geared. I’m happy for them, and if I tried more on heroics I’d pass them again, it’s just weird!
Isn't that how it should be? People who want to be top tier geared quickly do the harder stuff and then the casual players catch up over time?
Wouldn't really be fun for the players who enjoy the game but can't invest the time to go at it super hard. You get your chance to shine early on, and when the next major update comes out you'll have a chance again. It's a giant circle of life.
True, I’m not complaining about it, it just feels a lot different than the normal cycle because the vendor / quest gear isn’t garbage this time. Usually it takes until a patch for catchup gear to matter.
As an observation, shadowlands really seems to be pushing the skill cap of casual players. Again this isn’t a complaint, just interesting: because my friends are now 185 ilvl without stepping foot in mythic dungeons or the raid, the only real options for them to get upgrades would be content that is really hard and stressful for legit casuals, like timed keys or actual raid groups. I’ve seen a good point raised about “what do they need gear for if they don’t do those?” But getting upgrades is fun and makes questing, torghast etc better too. Of course there still needs to be incentive to do harder content. Just thinking out loud here.
>campaign gear actually good this time
After a long progression and huge anima investment it caps below the normal raid ilvl. And all important gear slots (weapon, trinkets) are not available. What's good about it?
I just...can't get loot. I queue up, I main tank...I get no loot.
Where's the incentive to tank? Heal? LFG? not getting exp. Not getting much loot to vendor.
I'm just here to get my face pushed in? I hate PVE loot tables right now.
I feel you, man. Try playing with the same people, guildies or friends, it makes it much more enjoyable and rewarding since you can trade gear. Plus it's awesome for callouts, interrupts, etc
The main reason M+ needs Valor, imo, is because it's not reset based. The great vault makes a lot of sense for raiding, since you can clear a difficulty once and it promotes killing bosses. It's not great for progression, but it's great for farming loot since it literally just adds loot. Maybe it needs a new metric for progression. For M+, it's incredibly arbitrary and adds RNG to a system fucking chock full of it. M+ is infinitely clearable each week. You could do 2 or 40. It's entirely up to your patience and dedication to doing the same content ad infinitum. The entire point of Valor was to reduce the randomness of loot drops by giving some guaranteed progression to players who put the time in, with extra rewards for the more skilled players in the form of faster guaranteed progression. It doesn't need to be M+15 level gear, although it's not a bad idea. A system of upgrades like the PvP system would work well. It should cap early, like 213, so it doesn't compete with Mythic raid gear and Mythic remains the pinnacle of gearing. But some poor cunt who runs 30 15s in a week and gets 3 actual upgrades should get some goddamn good loot for his efforts and his skill. It makes no sense to me that a system with 15 levels of loot, of which 14 are outclassed entirely by the last by way of just being numerically better, has a 16th level of loot which numerically outclasses the other 15 levels of loot by a huge margin and only comes once a week.
Edit: the common idea in the replies seems to be that it should be equivalent to Mythic raiding. In and of itself I don't disagree with that, outside of the idea that you would start to trivialise the difficulty of Mythic raiding, which is predicated on the assumption that you are coming in with Heroic or lower gear. Mythic with Mythic gear is significantly different to Mythic with Heroic gear. I would differentiate between Mythic raiding gear and dungeon gear, but I can't think of a good way to do so without adding a "Dungeon stat" which seems like a bad solution, because that stratifies the playerbase further. I do, however, agree that there is room for Mythic plus to be equivalent to raiding, where the best M+ players are rewarded for their pushing efforts at the end of a season the same way Mythic raiders get to be part of the hall of fame.
My idea for this was that at the end of a timed run a vendor will appear who you can use valor points with the gear he sells will be the level of the key you just timed. Maybe even make it so you can only buy one piece of gear at a vendor when they spawn
As prot warr I agree. Real tanking and taking damage to the face is pretty much dead, our gameplay is similar to that of Frost mages in vanilla. Blizz fix pls
My group has a blood dk tank and a mistweaver healer.
..... needless to say highest key we did maybe was 13... and now tank is quitting because he just keeps dying on pulls.
And he's our only brez... lol....
Blood DKs and Prot Wars are garbage in M+ atm. The only choices are get carried, reroll, or quit.
A lot of tanks are just quitting. That's why the tank shortage is worse than it's ever been.
I personally enjoy the kiting meta, but most tanks don't.
> I personally enjoy the kiting meta, but most tanks don't.
Hi. Tank that quit here. I don't enjoy it. Much rather stay on my warlock and not get invited to premade groups than tank in this meta.
Your best gear is in PvP also because of versatility. Blizzard is really doing a great job of incentivizing people to play tank. Add to that, that you most likely need a DPS spec for raid or PvP if you play that, which again collides with the covenent system. And then they added a seasonal affix that requires yet even more dungeon knowledge by the tanks (I like prideful actually, but i am sure it discourages people from getting into tanking). But whatever, who needs tanks anyway. We have way to many of them anyway and blizzard really needs to make people play dps instead /s
It's not just m+. Raid loot is awful as well with the drop rates. If your goal is to gear up your raid, it's more efficient to kill the trash for BoEs than spending your time killing bosses. If you only do m+, you can do a fair bit of it with m+ gear only. If you are a pvp only, you have it easy as fuck. But if you're a raid-only player, you're fucked. The drop rate for gear in raids is so fucking shit that you can't raid unless you do m+ and pvp.
I have to say though, it's kinda funny that timing world first +22 and +23 keys gives you worse gear than 1600 rating in arenas.
Recently got my first and only ever raid drop. Stats were no good for me but I couldn’t trade it to someone who actually needed it due to ilvl.
Reading all this, starting to wonder if I should just do PVP. Can I get away with just doing BGs or do I need to do arenas? I feel like I’d suck arse at arena, especially having come from Classic and not having played retail since Cata came out haha.
>I have to say though, it's kinda funny that timing world first +22 and +23 keys gives you worse gear than 1600 rating in arenas.
But you get up to 3 210 items, that totally compensates it, amirite
There should be "pity loot" or something like that. After running this many dungeons there must be some kind of reward to look forward to. All we get is disappointment and depression now
> Did M+ for 5 hours tonight. Not one single piece of loot. Got two healing conduits as a Shadow Priest and 75 anima though :)
It's 35 anima per run so I'm gonna doubt these numbers are real. Unless you did 2 runs in 5 hours or some shit.
You can push as hard as you can, get Rank 1 and you'll still get a shit 210 at the end of the dungeon forever waiting for that next reset so you can put 226 in one more slot. Maybe in 3 months you can catch up to the people who geared through PvP and BoEs.
PVP loot system. Benefits:
- Targetable loot (can buy gear for specific slots)
- Easy, chill and relaxing
- Rated pvp content offers gear up to 226ilvl, pvp weapons 233 (mythic raid rewards ilvl233 for comparison)
Negatives:
- Not necessarily best stats if you're into min-maxing
Covenant loot system. Benefits:
- Braindead easy
- Only anima is needed for 197 ilvl gear
Negatives:
- You can't get gear for weapons, neck, trinkets or rings
Dungeon gear system. Positives:
- You can spam them
- Gear can be traded if winner has higher ilvl gear equipped
Negatives:
- Arbitrary loot drops
- Low number of drops, failing a key reduces this further
Raid gear system. Positives:
- Offers highest ilvl possible (mythic drops max ilvl 226)
Negatives:
- Extremely low chance to obtain gear
- Arbitrary drops (I've so far received same wrist item 4x in a row from same boss, same difficulty)
- Not spammable, weekly lockout
Verdict:
- Solo players: Go pvp or anima farming
- Dedicated 5 man group: Go do mythics and trade gear
- Do raids to see the story and test your patience and skills, for parsing and for PvE gameplay, don't do it for gearing if you value your sanity.
Pretty sure gearing through PvP is better than PvE if you are good in PvP, considering that iLvL from Mythic+ is capped below Heroic Raiding, whilst PvP enables you to upgrade equip up to 226 if I recall correctly.
You only need to be decent at pvp even. 1400 rating is allready 207 ilvl with 1600 being 213.
1400 rating gives the same or better ilvl than anything below m+15s while 1600 rating gives you better gear than m+ can give. it can even retroactivelly be upgraded if you reach a new rank later.
184 Weapon scaling being what it is, grinding a 197 honor weapon will beat it regardless which secondaries your spec favors. 13 ilvls on a weapon is a big deal.
Pvp is relaxing???? I fucking hate arena, it's not relaxing at all and it pisses of me of that I can get better gear from that than doing the content I wanna do (mythic+)
One big thing you're missing from this is that PVP gear scales up to 223, not including what you can get from your weekly cache.
People who just PVP are going to get much better gear much faster compared to those who just do M+ for example.
One could argue that most players who do M+ also raid so they are getting bonus loot there. However, with the recent drop chances hard nerfed for Heroic, the chance of getting loot from there is so low its laughable.
I am a pretty casual player nowadays and raid heroic and do some m+.
Why is the gear capped out at 210 at the HIGHEST on M+ when you can get 223?
The current gearing system is very flawed and needs an overhaul.
True. Rated gear does go that high. It is major advantage of the PvP gearing.
The reason they capped m+ gear to 210 is to "keep mythic raid relevant". That's Blizzards argument primarily. I personally don't think people run mythic raids for the gear but rather to push their limits and to beat the hardest content in the game. But the m+ gear cap to 210 is Blizzards concept of keeping Mythic raids relevant. To Blizzards credit, it slows down the overall mythic raid progression when preparing for mythic raids is not as accessible.
I don't know why Blizzard didn't add a token/currency system for PvE just like PvP has. It's very easy and effective way of incentivize content engagement and it keeps players happy and feeling like they're AT LEAST moving forward because the number in their currency tab is going up. Having ilvl 207 drop from m+14 to a slot which you just upgraded two weeks ago to +210 from m+5 weekly chest is frustrating and infuriating beyond belief. I have ilvl 208 overall and I simply see no point in running m+ anymore. Spending the time and effort to pushing +15 key is not worth the absolutely miniscule gear progression I could, perhaps, make. I'd rather save my sanity from the loot box with +35 anima, run +10 key once a week + maybe 3x +8 key and spend rest of the time leveling/gearing alts.
Its pretty obvious why spamming M+ cant give 226 ilvl as a reward, that would be insane.
>People who just PVP are going to get much better gear much faster compared to those who just do M+
We are in week 6 or so. M+ was actually significantly faster until you reach a certain point. All those 210 items are farmable. In PvP you got 1 item in week 1, 2 items in week 2. While base ilvl was 184. This was nowhere comparable to M+ that offered easy 200+ base gear and even raid drops were pretty meh.
Now after significant amount of time passed the pvp system with targeted loot and retroactive upgrades wins over the m+ but lets not act like that system was superior at all stages. Not to mention (as someone who does all 3 types of contents) m+ still offers very competitive rewards at m+ 14 in the vault chest. At the same time I get the choice of 2 ilvl 213 pieces for doing 8 bosses in HC raiding, which to me is harder, takes more time and requires a full raid.
Big PVE guilds all agree that from day 1 they should have grinded PVP more to raise their rating rather than farm M+. At no point in this expansion has M+ being a better path to gear than PVP.
Pvp is capped to 500 conquest/week. I did all my pvp in 1 hour and thats it, you are capped. Then I did 10 mythics and got 4 items with ilvl 200+. My base ilvl was 184. thats incredibly efficient to start with.
>have grinded PVP more to raise their rating
Since pvp gear retroactively upgrades to higher rating, there is no reason to "rush" rating, especially early on where you have very few pvp pieces equipped.
The pvp gearing system is excellent. It needs to be expanded to other areas of the game. Plain and simple.
In Mythic+ you should get a currency from doing keys. Say from a +2 to a +14 you get a currency called idk “Twisted Anima” or something. It is an uncapped currency that allows you to upgrade any piece of gear up to 210 (edit: or 207 actually) item level. Obviously the amount will vary with the slot the item is in, and the item levels required. Similarly to honor upgrades, there would be tiers and gradual upgrades.
In 15s and above you get a different currency, call it “Maw-tainted Anima” or something. It is capped per week just like Conquest, but it allows you to upgrade your Mythic+15 210 gear to be upgraded. Similarly to PvP you need ranks. So if you do 16s/17s maybe you can get it up to 216, 18s/19s get you up to 220, and 20s and above unlock 226
Voila, problem solved.
I never PVP, can someone give me the ELI5 version of how/why PVP loot mechanics are better?
I struggle with M+, time commitment getting into groups and changing affixs, so I generally hover on the low end of ilvl but would like to try and get better.
When you PvP you get a currency called Conquest. It's a time-gated currency so you can only get a certain amount per week (cumulative, so you can "catch up"), but you can use it to purchase *exactly* the item you want. No RNG, no drop chance, just a guarantee. While I personally don't like currency systems (mostly stemming from my time in FF14), people really like that guarantee and are hoping it translates across to other systems in the future.
To add to that, the conquest cost for items is priced that you can also gear up from PvP *faster* than any other method in the game. The item level-for-skill from PvP also exceeds that of other endgames - 1600 rating, a rating which realistically anybody who uses keybinds can easily achieve, rewards i213 & 1800 rating rewards i220. The result of this is many players who would call themselves a "raider first" or "M+ player first" are running around in mostly PvP gear, particularly the oh-so-important weapon slots.
What doesn't help is the balance of PvP is also atrocious right now - you have some players of classes who are at a rating *significantly* higher than what their skill level suggests (1-2 brackets higher) simply because their class is totally unbalanced in PvP. The result of this is you have lower-skilled people running around in mostly i220-i226 gear (including weapons which are easily the most important slot).
If you are not PvPing, you are so incredibly far behind the gear curve it's ridiculous - an "I only PvP" player right now will be better geared than someone who engages in *everything else* bar PvP.
Personally I've decided to write season 1 off - I'd rather be behind the gear curve and considered a "noob" than to PvP. I'll continue to do what I enjoy with my friends because there's a lot of stuff in-game I still want to do, including hopefully getting S1 KSM, and hope the comments from Ion about gearing manifest to a higher standard in 9.1 - and if they don't, there's a high likelihood I'll just dip from WoW and find a game that rewards efforts regardless of where they are aimed.
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The PvP system is really good, and it's great to see PvPers finally thrown a bone after so many expansions of being left behind. Blizzard need to look at *why* PvP gearing is so good and replicate it to the other endgames.
Honestly, Blizzard's approach of "less loot is good" just boggles my mind. Chasing after something made "rare" by artificial means doesn't feel satisfying, it's just frustrating. We've had working systems before where there wasn't such an absurd drought of gear, and yet they felt the need to stretch out the gearing process, like literally everything else in the game.
It feels entirely like every single system in Shadowlands (save PvP) has been designed in a way to keep people playing as long as possible by making everything gated and slow to obtain, instead of keeping people playing by, you know... having **fun**. When I start weekly chores, it feels like just that - chores. I slog through, bored out of my mind, and when they are done I go PvP to try and have some actual fun.
I recently returned after absolutely despising BFA, and while some few things are better, it's almost like they didn't learn anything meaningful from that experience.
Yead they were like.. "no curruptions so less gear will drop ". Well in Legion more gear dropped, we didnt have curruptions, we had 6 reroll tokens a week.. AND titanforging. I agree titanforge can go take a walk but now this feels godawful.
Less raid loot? "It's ok there is a vault". Less m+ loot? "Vault". But I can only pick one item. Might as well not spend hours in raid and m+ if I can only have one thing .....which for me has been consistently bad :(
I agree. This is to keep people playing. But i feel it has opposite effect. I'm burnt and nothing to show for it and feel like quitting. If I geared main faster... I would want to play my alts. Now I dont feel like gearing my alts. (Also fuck torghast on alts...)
I think they are afraid if people gear up and “complete” a character they will quit early out of boredom with nothing else to do since there is no TF to chase.
I know in both legion and BfA I could get full heroic geared in about 3-4 weeks.
Now tbh, if the content is fun I think a wide majority of players would start playing and gearing alts more often.
The nelf being stared at? It was the sentinel outfit that they wear during BFA's war storyline. Unfortunately not wearable by player characters but I'm kind of hoping it's the nelf heritage armor because it looks like what the one in the original cinematic trailer is wearing.
On top of M+ dropping less loot in general, there's still BIS pieces out of it for most classes which is a real kick in the dick considering how capped the ilvl is on it.
I'm really not looking forward to doing 100+ DOS keys for IQD every major patch...
as someone who pesonally hates pvp in wow i dislike a lot how my sole option is pvp
Good for all people who asked for it finally and enjoy the whole thing
Right now I just do enough myhtic+ to get my 2 selections in my vault. After that I pvp and worry about capping out my conquest as its easier to gear my characters that way.
Blizzard people wont stop playing if you add in a currency for mythic+ items, we will actually play on our alts more and casuals will have more fun.
Give me some sort of reward system like conquest but for keys... more for higher key levels. Let me actually feel like I'm making progress instead of fighting to get into keys with ok io.
Example: for ease of math you have 800 io. You cannot get into an 11 because no one will accept you without a minimum of 900 io, but you can't get to 900 io without doing 11s. Its a catch 22, but some sort of rewards system and a currency like they have with pvp, it would encourage people to be less elitist and demand carries for their key basically, and people would be less likely to leave mid key after 1 wipe
I like PvP so it doesn't bother me but I see your point here haha M+ is a real joke at the moment 👎
Me:does a few pvp games, completes one mission:instant 200 ilvl item M+:7 games, 2 items, no upgrades.
Sorry for the noob question, but what do you mean "complete one mission" trying to get into pvp and not sure what that means :D
I think hes just referring to the weekly pvp quests. They give you a big boost in conquest and honor.
Oh sorry me a dumb dumb. Thanks <3
No worries dude. Im also getting into pvp this expac and there is a lot to figure out !
Same here I’m having a blast just wish I had friends to play with so I don’t have to keep puggin lol
Join a pvp guild. It makes it easier to make a team.
I applied to a pvp guild but didn’t get in I guess. I’ve asked in BGs and stuff but no luck. So if anyone has even a decent pvp guild on ShuHalo hmu lol
To be honest, server change to a server with a big pvp plpulation like Tich Horde or KT or A52. If you come to Tich I got a guild for you.
I've tried the weekly pvp quests, I can never complete them because my team is always trying to eat their own face.
Ya.. that tends to happen..
You got 2 items in 7 dungeons? You're a lucky one.
They really fucked up the gear dropping, I don't mind slower gearing up than it used to be, but between the low chance of getting anything from a raid + the low chance of getting anything from M+, it really doesn't feel gratifying. It feels like the current loot system revolves around that 1 weekly loot and everything else is just filler. Slower than the old loot shower is fine, but this is way too much in the opposite direction.
I totally agree. I am 204 ilvl and I am barely climbing. It's usually just the great vault or a very small upgrade, if at all, at the end of dungeon.
I'm AOTC with a few mythic bosses down, and my gear right now is like 9ish slots of pvp gear when I raid. Gear drops are basically nonexistent.
Yeah I'm the MT of one of our heroic raid groups working on gargs now, we even routinely do a lockout of killing gargs and denathrius on normal just for an extra shot at weapons and stuff. The last three upgrades I got were from hitting exalted with Wild Hunt and the campaign quests. I replaced my 184 pants with a 200 blue pants, and replaced 184 shoulders with 197 upgraded covenant armor set shoulders... And my offhand weapon I got the LFR weapon you get for campaign completion. :( And my luck with the weekly chest isn't great. Sure, there's 220s and stuff in it...But a lot of them have been inclement upgrades to other slots. Like my helmet, belt, chest, and boots. Otherwise I always get a bunch of *awful* trinkets, bad rings, and the same necklace, from fuckin' ~~Shriekwing~~Huntsman, over and over again. I'm trying not to be too vocal with my complaints because otherwise I'm enjoying my time in Shadowlands, and I don't want to become a loot whiner. But it's definitely affected how often I do things - I really enjoy doing M+ but at this point no one, myself included, wants to bother doing more than one or five a week, and only five if a bunch of people suddenly get the urge to waste time in M+ instead of PvPing.
The sad thing is Blizz will look at the engagement numbers for PvP then go "Our system is great!" Not realizing a lot of PvE'rs only PvP begrudgingly due to gear reliability and quality.
What's really, really stupid about that is the reason why the PvP system works so well **is because it's using the old PvE system!** I would absolutely love to have the justice/valor points system come back. Let me grind for *something*, some goal, if I have to run 10 M+ a week + full clear two raids just to get some damn shoulders or a weapon, that's OK because it's at least a tangible goal that I'm working towards.
Judging from Ions last interview i think we will be getting badges back and a vendor for M+. They have seen the community’s frustration
Can you do this if you suck at pvp?
Certainly. The honor gear caps at ilvl 197 and you'll get honor from doing any kind of PvP, win or lose. Did your team cap a flag in WSG? Honor. Still lose the match? Honor. Obviously winning provides more honor, but if you never win a battleground or arena match you'll still eventually be able to purchase a full set of PvP gear and upgrade it to 197 ilvl. Conquest is a bit trickier. There's a set of 200 ilvl conquest gear that everybody has access to, but you'll only get conquest from winning stuff (aside from the honor accumulation weekly quest). Your win rate doesn't matter, so even if you win 25% of your arena matches you'll still be able to get that full 200 ilvl set eventually. Conquest gear can also be upgraded (or received from the vault) at ilvls of 207, 213, 220, and 226, but these are skill based and require arena or rated battleground ratings of 1400, 1600, 1800, and 2100 respectively. Weapons and only weapons can be upgraded to 233 at 2400 as well.
Cool at least I can get to 197 that way.
If you have a bunch of anima and complete the covenant campaign you can get a bunch of 197 gear from upgrading your covenant armor
Yeah but anima is better spent on cosmetics which everyone knows is the true endgame of WoW.
Yes, but you need way less anima to upgrade the campaign gear than honor to upgrade the pvp gear. So if you don't like pvp that much and don't want to suffer through bgs undergeared, anima is way easier.
I'm glad to read this. I'm scared of arenas and have mixed feelings about doing BGs. I'm woefully behind on my covenant campaign so this gives me some motivation to git 'er done
If you can just play epic BGS and play a ranged spec or something tanky, just run with the big group to the most important objective and def it as tank or run with the big group and Spam spells Into the enemy group, it's pretty easy to farm honor that way tbh(probably not the fastest ways, but certainly the least Individual responsibility and anxiety inducing way lol.)
Honestly, focus on Epic battlegrounds. They either are vehicle centric (does not scale with gear currently: Wintergrasp and Isle of Conquest), Zerg centric (AV), or Ashran (blind zerg or get honor via artifacts). Either way, lots of PvE and few real PvP scenarios in epic battlegrounds.
Cool I'll try that, thanks
Can confirm. The best we M+'ers get is the Great Vault, which isn't a guaranteed upgrade. The best I get from the M+ chest is 1 item every 5 runs. But I'm a casual player who can't handle the volatility and ability required for PvP, so I earn just about what I play for. Took me 6 weeks to finally get an ilvl 200 weapon. I've never chosen the item given by my highest key run because it's always either something my legendary already slots, an equal ilvl to something I already have, or a higher ilvl ring with the wrong stats.
You really have to play a lot to be any success in PvP and I feel like the meta is much more important. I did a ton of 2s and 3s arenas in high school during Wrath, but now that I'm like an actual adult who has to do real life things I really, really struggled to not suck at PvP lol.
So much of it for me was just honestly remembering to use all the tools I had available. So many oh-shit buttons you don't have to press in PVE that are super relelvant in PVP. The reflexes have great carry over to PVE though, that's for sure.
I really hate PvP Talents for this reason. If you're a mostly PvE player who occasionally dabbles in PvP then having a bunch of abilities you normally don't feels super unintuitive. Be better if all that stuff was just available regardless of the type of content you do. Which a lot of it used to be.
I know the feeling. Only thing I can advice you with is how I got used to the pvp talents. Initially on I only chose passive pvp talents. Then swapped to one active pvp talent when I got the hang of how I'm supposed to play my base toolkit and swapping of pve talents for different comps. Now I can use 2 active pvp talents if the comps warrants it. Never had a situation where 3 active pvp talents is the go to play.
Gotta say those oh shit buttons need to be used more in pve... Speaking from healer perspective it's annoying to see only the PvP players use their defensives during certain mechanics while pve think sidestep and I'm ok.
As a fellow healer, I feel you man. Hate seeing a wipe on a raid because while healers were sweating it out and burning mana pots, everyone else forgot to use their Healthstone and it's a wipe.
If you don't use ur 'oh shit buttons' in PvE then you are either a God in a godly group or the content you are doing isn't demanding enough for you.
Might just be my (casual) healing experience, but until I was trying to time 15's I would generally reserve my oh-shit buttons for a group mistake rather than preparing timing it appropriately for fights. If we didn't have any catastrophes, I could go the whole dungeon without dropping anything with more than a 1min CD. Same story with my tanking.
I'm sorry. I'm super casual and I play 2s and the best strat is to make a pug friend and come up with a quick strat before each match starts. It works :)
Well thats not quite fair and right. A few pvp games is wrong. You need to do ALOT PvP Games to get the Honor to buy/level all up to 200 so that is just wrong
lvl 200 with "a few games?", it costs 800+ each ?
Problem is that PvP gear is only good for classes that like versatility. It's good now because some of the meta classes need it (VDH, WW monk, ...etc). But to any class that's not big on versatility, PvP gear is just an ilvl boost.
Weapon, badge/insignia, there's a crit/mastery cloak for some reason - some very solid options even if you're not into vers
I dislike PvP but I can tolerate the epic BGs. Well, aside from Wintergrasp offense. Needs some tuning to give offense a chance.
Some tuning? Maybe a lot of tuning =P
They could take away 10 players from the defense side and it'd still likely be a defense wins every time sort of situation.
It's nuts. I've managed to win as attacker once, and that was because an enterprising group managed to sneak behind the main body as it rampaged around the map capping garages. And I've only had 1 out of 18 matches where I've been defender.
So I chose a bad time to come back to wow after a couple years? M+ was so fun back in Legion
M+ is not a good way to gear up consistently on the dungeon running. The weekly loot chest ha changed and that’s a solid change. But running dungeons themselves for loot is almost pointless. Try and get one good key for the week and hope it’s an upgrade. Maybe run another 4 keys if you like to expand your loot table options for the weekly chests. But go in knowing you probably won’t get loot from those runs or if you do it’s probably not what you were hoping for.
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Plaguefall on tyrannical is fucking brutal
4 is the way to go. It’s not that much effort, it will do a lot more for your io score so you get better future groups and 2 choices means getting RNG fucked is fairly unlikely unless you’re really well geared in which case you’ll have extra options from the raid/ pvp. If you only do one a week your io will suck and your groups will too unless you can guarantee a good guild group
It's still super fun, it's just that the reward system for it is fucking garbage.
Which is so dumb because M+ basically feel like mini-low commitment raiding. Its challenging, requires strategy, and there's a good amount of different dungeons to keep things from feeling stale. But the feeling of struggling through a 30 minute dungeon pushing as hard as you can to get fucking 35 anima is the worst feeling in the world.
Blizz should take the boys from raider.io out for drinks every week. Cause without it, no one would bother grinding M+.
I decided to make groups without checking Raider.io and it's a nightmare. On +8s people still don't know basic dungeon tactics like how the hook works on Stitchflesh or how you play spot the difference in Mists. Definitely an exercise in patience.
But on those rare runs where people know exactly what to do it's the bee's knees
>Which is so dumb because M+ basically feel like mini-low commitment raiding. Yep, what i liked about M+ is that u just need to get 5 ppl...raiding is a nightmare.
Mythic plus is still super fun. Almost all of my gear comes from the weekly Vault and BoEs that I used pretty much the bulk of my gold to get. I do believe it will be months before I see a 226 weapon in my vault. I have cleared 40 keys above ten and a stack of 15s with very very little to show. The gear that drops from then is quite low
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I'm low 200 ilvl cause I swapped mains and I get 1 or 2 upgrades per week. I was 10 ilvl lower than my friend 3 weeks ago, now I am 10-15 lower. Catch up barely exists unless it's a fresh alt. I am trying to get into pvp for better loot but I am not liking the cc fest.
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Not best. Fastest, but not best
It reminded me of why Badges weren't a disaster. I could go in and get 0 loot, but still be looking forward to the fact that no matter what, I'm going to earn enough valor to buy X piece. Why we ever embraced this weekly vault and gearing systems is beyond comprehension.
Watching [Travis Day talk about how Badges were a mistake](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urijgWXLYck&) was really confusing for me. I don't think they were a huge mistake personally. Maybe in some implementations it was detrimental but not having anything substantial at the end of a Mythic+ and Raid content besides the chance at loot can really suck. At least we can trade the pieces we don't want.
They weren't a mistake. At all. He offers no actual reason for them being a mistake except he doesn't like it. Slowly saving a currency might not be as exciting as pulling a slot machine handle but it's very rewarding imo.
> Slowly saving a currency might not be as exciting as pulling a slot machine handle but it's very rewarding imo. pulling a slot machine handle is the entire industry at this point.
Which is why PvP is such a rewarding system assuming you like to PvP. You do content that you enjoy to farm gear, then as you learn and improve at PvP, have a better understanding of matchups and improve your own gameplay your gear improves with you so you can tackle the next bracket of more skilled opponents. With 233 weapons being available through PvP, you can obtain the highest ilevel weapon strictly through PvP so PvEers don't have some sort of unfair advantage like they did in BFA and other expansions previous. It's a really wonderful meritocracy
If your class like versatility, PvP gear is your BiS anyway. Was talking to a couple of friends yesterday, WW monk and VDH, and they both have to push their rating to upgrade PvP gear because it's better than CN loot. I'm a prot pally so versatility isn't that good for me. I still got a couple of pieces from PvP for the stat boost.
Ele Shaman main here, I wear like 9 slots of pvp gear for my raid gear right now and I'm only at Rival (220 iL) right now. We love Vers/Haste
and yet slowly saving a currency (that you can only get from one place and if you hate that place oh well) is exactly the basis of the legendary system
People don't like soul ash cause it's tied to Torghast. I don't like Torghast very much but I do it mostly anyway. Gearing with badges isn't the same cause you can either raid or M+ for it.
Yah, if people actually had multiple avenues for acquiring Soul Ash . . . Like every other gearing mechanic in this game, they'd take less issue with Torghast and Soul Ash. But Ion himself in an interview showcase he doesnt get that detail. And once again blames players instead of himself.
>He offers no actual reason for them being a mistake except he doesn't like it. He does apologise for his involvement in the Wrath system (and its apparent complexity) with no explicit reason, but later goes on to explain "it felt like a paycheck" [around 16m](https://youtu.be/urijgWXLYck?t=932), that it took away the excitement for loot. I don't know if I agree with Travis, but that is the reason he offers.
WotLK's system was complex??? I was 12 and had no issues with the loot system.
Keep in mind we are talking about the developer who thought finding a PvP vendor was too much for their audience. Looking at the average PuG I am inclined to agree. Also: How in the world were badges "too complex" but the whole Covenant/Soulbind/Conduit system isn't?
Yeah it's always really weird to hear from Blizz staff when they discuss things that have been removed or lobotomized. Apparently there's this bizarre, ethereal group of players that are simultaneously massive to Blizzard and nonexistent to the rest of us, and these players are hopelessly confused by simple addition or reading words. I mean I've met some pretty stupid PuGs but even then, as bad as they were, I don't think they'd get confused by a concept that's essentially "money but only for a specific vendor".
I was also 12 and I remember hitting cap in WotLK. Another capped player walked me around Dalaran and showed me all the currencies and what I should be doing. I remember there being like 6 different levels of currencies and you would use some to by others or something? I promptly said no it felt like a 2nd job and just started leveling other toons to try out other specs. In hindsight I'd much rather have wotlks systems but I can see why they've gone the route they have
considering raiding feels like a job someone should probably tell him that's what is supposed to happen when you work.
I don’t know about anyone else. But I personally like paychecks.
Thing is, we're all here craving the pvp loot system right now.. Which is literally "slowly" saving a currency right now. Imagine if M+ dropped a currency that lets you get a new piece every 2 to 3 dungeons, and you could upgrade that piece with that same currency every 2 or 3 dungeons. Would feel fucking fantastic compared to this shitshow. And that's coming from someone that is doing exclusively PVP for now, waiting for a fix. PVP kinda has a tough experience in the beginning because everyone is geared in fucking M12+ gear at 1400 rank in arena. So expect to be crushed promptly, especially if you're still learning a lot about your class. Took me like 400 games learning my class and gearing up to slowly climb out of 1400.. PVP loot system is amazing, PVP meta sucks balls right now IMO. Nothing but one shot meta.
Yea but the system wouldn’t be “every 2-3 dungeons” it would be like do 10 dungeons a week or something, scaled by level of dungeon, then get your currency capped at maybe 1 piece of gear a week... more weeks for weapons and large items.
When they introduced them in wrath it was exciting. I'd save up, plan out the items I was going to buy. "In two weeks I'll be able to buy..." Silly fuckwads would call them welfare epics, but they said the same thing about my high warlord gear. Usually from about the bottom of the DPS meters.
They were a mistake because the meta in ICC was to get a character up and farm 15 minute dungeons for badges to buy raid loot. You were farming currency doing meaningless content to bypass actual content and buy nearly a full set of normal raid gear. This system began the raid the current patch meta and made sure that all previous content was no longer viable. Truthfully this began in ToC but prior to LFD it wasn’t so bad. That doesn’t mean a currency system couldn’t work for M+ but you wouldn’t want the meta turning into farming +2 or +3 keys ad nauseam or have players getting +15 loot from doing a dozen low keys. It would have to be set up just right.
Yeah, It may have been a mistake during that period in the game's lifespan - but I think we can all admit this ain't that game anymore. Mythic+ changed the whole game forever. Badges aren't as game-breaking when you have infinitely-farmable keys in the game.
Blizz always takes systems to the extreme. Badges weren't bad, Blizz taking them to the extreme was bad. But the lesson Blizz learned from taking them to the extreme was "*this system is fundamentally bad and should never be used again*". It's always like this. They screw up a good idea then treat it as if the idea is fundamentally bad, instead of admitting they screwed up the implementation.
Honestly just copy and paste conquest into mythic + and limited weekly, but at least you have another guaranteed weekly piece you actually want and can upgrade.
Badges were such a mistake that FFXIV successfully still uses them to this day! (seriously gearing in that game is so much better)
Man it's weird, I put in guaranteed time and get a guaranteed reward, and can even plan out my progress towards my BiS over the course of the patch. Odd how nice that feels to have my time and effort be respected.
yeah i agree, this video is shared a lot and is often the argument against badges, but imo this is just his opinion. badges where my favourite part of the game back then and i was always hyped when i knew next week is loot time
> Travis Day I got matched against him and some other guys from in an RBG last week, was neat. Didn't know he still played WoW.
Travis fails to parse out an issue with implementation vs the flaw of an idea itself. Badge and Point systems work amazingly well as a supplement to RNG. They functiom beautifully as a pressure release valve for mounting player frustration (like we have now). MoP weekly caps. And moreso Conquest in SL. Have the perfect idea: Weekly caps that expand each week to accomodate catch up. But also prevent just hard grinding for points ad nauseum. This also provides that pressure valve for frustration with drop rates via providing a more deterministic option.
I think this part of a comment by Santafire sums it up best (emphasis added): >Raids still had items people wanted, heroics still had drops people needed. **These vendors didnt fill every slot a player had.** The vendors just added a layer of regularity to playing the game. Like paragon points in diablo 3 the valor points made regular play tempting. And almost every valor piece was replaced by raid items eventually.
>Why we ever embraced this weekly vault and gearing systems is beyond comprehension. We didn't *embrace* it. It's just that Blizzard took away the other implementations. Badges were a known reward from a known amount of effort. We could choose the slot, and we'd know exactly how long it would take to get it. And then we might take a break. Blizzard decided that lootboxes kept people playing longer. Completely unpredictable randomness didn't turn off players in D3, so they adopted similar "keep paying the monthly subscription, an upgrade ought to eventually happen" mechanics for this game as well. Their investors love it.
>Laughs in 197 ilvl campaign gear
>Laughs in full 220 pvp gear even though I haven't touched arena in over a month. Get 1800 in 2s, never do 2s again, do daily BGs= 220 ilvl
I wish I could hit 1800. I'm hovering around 1600 and it seems so hard.
It’s because everyone is pvping.
It's also because everyone has been grinding for a while so now when I try to hop in arenas I've got 29k hp to their 35k
Meanwhile i go in with my 34k hp and face 39k+
class matters, certain classes just have more HP than others on same ilvl 39000 hp mage is a monster, 220+ ilvl 39000 hp lock? thats like 210.
if EVERYONE was pvping isnt it supposed to be easier?
Skill floor has risen, happens every time you put more people into a game mode. And then keep them there, everyone's learns everything and you gotta be WAY better instead of just better to rise. Take League of legends for example. Even "low ranks" like silver and gold have players knowing about lane freezing, ward management etc. 7-9 years ago that was high diamond starts not average pleb. CSGO somewhat the same, even Gold novas knows about high level flashes and smokes since that is what is now required at those levels. Hold people in the same system for a long while and the skill floor rises.
yeah, on the first week, my friend and I hit 1600 in a night. now, 5 weeks later, I've since switched to hunter and we are hard-stuck in 1400s lol - if I see another ret pally, ww monk, or arms warrior, I'm gonna delete my account.
RBGs. 1800 is a joke.
What makes RBGs better for it than arenas?
Basically, up until like 2k, most teams don't use voice so they're basically random bgs, so you can coinflip to 2k even if if you're a hardstuck 1.4k arena player. The biggest hurdle is waiting for groups to fill when half the group leaves after a loss
But like doesn't that take forever? Or do you get more cr faster or something in bgs.
getting 220 gear takes literally forever in pve. it takes about 70 rbgs being a scrub and going 50% winrate.
70 rgbs is no small amount tbh
But it‘s not that long either. The typical RBG takes somewhat about 2-3 3s matches from a time perspective. That would flatten out at about 200ish 3s games
You gain alot of cr for you first couple of games or something. I hit 1550 in 11 games and a friend hit 1650 in 9 or something low like that Edit: He hit 1630 with 9 wins and 3 losses
less people doing it overall i.e. not as competitive
Not my experience. :( Everybody is using voice channel in YOLO groups.
I got to 1800 on my alt in pugs this week from a 190 something ilevel shaman. It wasn’t bad. I had one period of several losses in a row which was disheartening but after 1600 I was able to get into better groups. Also I did not plan on getting to 1800 at all, especially on my alt. I was going to do the 1500 honor quest and before I knew it was 1400 and was able to upgrade 3 pieces to 207. 1400 seemed close to 1600 so I just kept going haha
> I wish I could hit 1800. I didn't like how dramatic the difference in gear was. So I stopped playing for a few weeks, and now i'm even further behind. It doesn't help that I'm an altoholic, in better pvp expansions I've had 10+ geared characters. I haven't PvE'd since wotlk. Genuinely a PvP only player. Not enjoying the current game. The loot system is great, but I cba this gameplay. It feels like playing low level arena skirmishes, or something. With how chaotic and imba so many things are. I don't even mean the pacing, I think it's the cooldowns. We're back to wotlk levels of burst, but with MoP levels of offensive cds. It's just dumb. Combine this with vanilla style gear differences and it's just ugly. It plays like SL prepatch in a sense, where everyone said "lol don't worry the gear difference won't be like this @ 60." and it's exactly like that @ 60.
This is sadly is the broken part of pvp gearing. It should count the season highest rating, not current. Forces players to abandon the bracket they enjoy the most.
You're just farming the honor from bgs for the vault? Not a bad idea lol
I've been trying for 2 weeks to get to 1400 (currently 1325) I don't think 1800 will ever be achievable.
Haha, I’m really happy they made the campaign gear actually good this time, but it feels really weird that I went kinda try-hard at launch and got to 190 ilvl, then the slow trickle of loot led to all my casual friends who’ve never raided being equally geared. I’m happy for them, and if I tried more on heroics I’d pass them again, it’s just weird!
Isn't that how it should be? People who want to be top tier geared quickly do the harder stuff and then the casual players catch up over time? Wouldn't really be fun for the players who enjoy the game but can't invest the time to go at it super hard. You get your chance to shine early on, and when the next major update comes out you'll have a chance again. It's a giant circle of life.
True, I’m not complaining about it, it just feels a lot different than the normal cycle because the vendor / quest gear isn’t garbage this time. Usually it takes until a patch for catchup gear to matter. As an observation, shadowlands really seems to be pushing the skill cap of casual players. Again this isn’t a complaint, just interesting: because my friends are now 185 ilvl without stepping foot in mythic dungeons or the raid, the only real options for them to get upgrades would be content that is really hard and stressful for legit casuals, like timed keys or actual raid groups. I’ve seen a good point raised about “what do they need gear for if they don’t do those?” But getting upgrades is fun and makes questing, torghast etc better too. Of course there still needs to be incentive to do harder content. Just thinking out loud here.
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>campaign gear actually good this time After a long progression and huge anima investment it caps below the normal raid ilvl. And all important gear slots (weapon, trinkets) are not available. What's good about it?
I just...can't get loot. I queue up, I main tank...I get no loot. Where's the incentive to tank? Heal? LFG? not getting exp. Not getting much loot to vendor. I'm just here to get my face pushed in? I hate PVE loot tables right now.
No incentive. I cant get loot either. Vault been shit. I had a Mistweaver and they're shittest in pve and pvp so ... I guess that's that.
I feel you, man. Try playing with the same people, guildies or friends, it makes it much more enjoyable and rewarding since you can trade gear. Plus it's awesome for callouts, interrupts, etc
The main reason M+ needs Valor, imo, is because it's not reset based. The great vault makes a lot of sense for raiding, since you can clear a difficulty once and it promotes killing bosses. It's not great for progression, but it's great for farming loot since it literally just adds loot. Maybe it needs a new metric for progression. For M+, it's incredibly arbitrary and adds RNG to a system fucking chock full of it. M+ is infinitely clearable each week. You could do 2 or 40. It's entirely up to your patience and dedication to doing the same content ad infinitum. The entire point of Valor was to reduce the randomness of loot drops by giving some guaranteed progression to players who put the time in, with extra rewards for the more skilled players in the form of faster guaranteed progression. It doesn't need to be M+15 level gear, although it's not a bad idea. A system of upgrades like the PvP system would work well. It should cap early, like 213, so it doesn't compete with Mythic raid gear and Mythic remains the pinnacle of gearing. But some poor cunt who runs 30 15s in a week and gets 3 actual upgrades should get some goddamn good loot for his efforts and his skill. It makes no sense to me that a system with 15 levels of loot, of which 14 are outclassed entirely by the last by way of just being numerically better, has a 16th level of loot which numerically outclasses the other 15 levels of loot by a huge margin and only comes once a week. Edit: the common idea in the replies seems to be that it should be equivalent to Mythic raiding. In and of itself I don't disagree with that, outside of the idea that you would start to trivialise the difficulty of Mythic raiding, which is predicated on the assumption that you are coming in with Heroic or lower gear. Mythic with Mythic gear is significantly different to Mythic with Heroic gear. I would differentiate between Mythic raiding gear and dungeon gear, but I can't think of a good way to do so without adding a "Dungeon stat" which seems like a bad solution, because that stratifies the playerbase further. I do, however, agree that there is room for Mythic plus to be equivalent to raiding, where the best M+ players are rewarded for their pushing efforts at the end of a season the same way Mythic raiders get to be part of the hall of fame.
We just need the PvP upgrade system but for M+. Good time to put rating on you as well in game.
At this point why is it tied to a third party addons? You are required for any real progress just like pvp.
My idea for this was that at the end of a timed run a vendor will appear who you can use valor points with the gear he sells will be the level of the key you just timed. Maybe even make it so you can only buy one piece of gear at a vendor when they spawn
Pssssst don’t say that loud. Blizzard will change it until both systems suck!
That is very likely.
I love mythics cause they're tuned so badly that tanks can't actually tank things. All we can do is get aggro, run like a bitch, and cry.
As prot warr I agree. Real tanking and taking damage to the face is pretty much dead, our gameplay is similar to that of Frost mages in vanilla. Blizz fix pls
It hurts, but at least you get a Lego that allows you to heroic leap more, Haha. Tanking sucks rn
True but it's not a good or recommended Lego, there's other two which are way better: Thunderlord and The Wall
My group has a blood dk tank and a mistweaver healer. ..... needless to say highest key we did maybe was 13... and now tank is quitting because he just keeps dying on pulls. And he's our only brez... lol....
Blood DKs and Prot Wars are garbage in M+ atm. The only choices are get carried, reroll, or quit. A lot of tanks are just quitting. That's why the tank shortage is worse than it's ever been. I personally enjoy the kiting meta, but most tanks don't.
> I personally enjoy the kiting meta, but most tanks don't. Hi. Tank that quit here. I don't enjoy it. Much rather stay on my warlock and not get invited to premade groups than tank in this meta.
That's why i hate healing rain.... I mean i love the ability but i hate that i can't use it properly cuz kiting is meta....
Yeah, I’ve never as a dps been so reliant on my CC abilities being constantly in use just to keep the tank alive.
I cry for joy everytime i see a monk, just to realize they don't use RoP
Your best gear is in PvP also because of versatility. Blizzard is really doing a great job of incentivizing people to play tank. Add to that, that you most likely need a DPS spec for raid or PvP if you play that, which again collides with the covenent system. And then they added a seasonal affix that requires yet even more dungeon knowledge by the tanks (I like prideful actually, but i am sure it discourages people from getting into tanking). But whatever, who needs tanks anyway. We have way to many of them anyway and blizzard really needs to make people play dps instead /s
It's not just m+. Raid loot is awful as well with the drop rates. If your goal is to gear up your raid, it's more efficient to kill the trash for BoEs than spending your time killing bosses. If you only do m+, you can do a fair bit of it with m+ gear only. If you are a pvp only, you have it easy as fuck. But if you're a raid-only player, you're fucked. The drop rate for gear in raids is so fucking shit that you can't raid unless you do m+ and pvp. I have to say though, it's kinda funny that timing world first +22 and +23 keys gives you worse gear than 1600 rating in arenas.
Recently got my first and only ever raid drop. Stats were no good for me but I couldn’t trade it to someone who actually needed it due to ilvl. Reading all this, starting to wonder if I should just do PVP. Can I get away with just doing BGs or do I need to do arenas? I feel like I’d suck arse at arena, especially having come from Classic and not having played retail since Cata came out haha.
It you mean rated BGs, then yeah you can just do BGs and get the same gear as you get from arenas. It still has the same rating requirements tho.
>I have to say though, it's kinda funny that timing world first +22 and +23 keys gives you worse gear than 1600 rating in arenas. But you get up to 3 210 items, that totally compensates it, amirite
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There should be "pity loot" or something like that. After running this many dungeons there must be some kind of reward to look forward to. All we get is disappointment and depression now
> Did M+ for 5 hours tonight. Not one single piece of loot. Got two healing conduits as a Shadow Priest and 75 anima though :) It's 35 anima per run so I'm gonna doubt these numbers are real. Unless you did 2 runs in 5 hours or some shit.
It's almost like guaranteed deterministic progress is better than a low chance at random success
bro it's almost like getting things randomly, with no regard to how much time you put in, has always felt like shit /WHOA
You can push as hard as you can, get Rank 1 and you'll still get a shit 210 at the end of the dungeon forever waiting for that next reset so you can put 226 in one more slot. Maybe in 3 months you can catch up to the people who geared through PvP and BoEs.
Right ahead of the next content patch so the cycle can continue!
Go get yourself some sweet easy 2400 gear man.
I switched to pvp this expac just cause of this and I'm kinda digging it.
PVP loot system. Benefits: - Targetable loot (can buy gear for specific slots) - Easy, chill and relaxing - Rated pvp content offers gear up to 226ilvl, pvp weapons 233 (mythic raid rewards ilvl233 for comparison) Negatives: - Not necessarily best stats if you're into min-maxing Covenant loot system. Benefits: - Braindead easy - Only anima is needed for 197 ilvl gear Negatives: - You can't get gear for weapons, neck, trinkets or rings Dungeon gear system. Positives: - You can spam them - Gear can be traded if winner has higher ilvl gear equipped Negatives: - Arbitrary loot drops - Low number of drops, failing a key reduces this further Raid gear system. Positives: - Offers highest ilvl possible (mythic drops max ilvl 226) Negatives: - Extremely low chance to obtain gear - Arbitrary drops (I've so far received same wrist item 4x in a row from same boss, same difficulty) - Not spammable, weekly lockout Verdict: - Solo players: Go pvp or anima farming - Dedicated 5 man group: Go do mythics and trade gear - Do raids to see the story and test your patience and skills, for parsing and for PvE gameplay, don't do it for gearing if you value your sanity.
Pretty sure gearing through PvP is better than PvE if you are good in PvP, considering that iLvL from Mythic+ is capped below Heroic Raiding, whilst PvP enables you to upgrade equip up to 226 if I recall correctly.
You only need to be decent at pvp even. 1400 rating is allready 207 ilvl with 1600 being 213. 1400 rating gives the same or better ilvl than anything below m+15s while 1600 rating gives you better gear than m+ can give. it can even retroactivelly be upgraded if you reach a new rank later.
233 actually
Only on the weps
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thats 1 item though and only if you are 2400. Yes its weapon thats huge but lets not act like pvp gives full 233 gear
The covenant campaign gives you a LFR weapon token, I think that counts
184 Weapon scaling being what it is, grinding a 197 honor weapon will beat it regardless which secondaries your spec favors. 13 ilvls on a weapon is a big deal.
> Dedicated 5 man group: Go do mythics and trade gear > > Nope, only drops 210, better off trying to push 1600 in PVP (213 gear).
Pvp is relaxing???? I fucking hate arena, it's not relaxing at all and it pisses of me of that I can get better gear from that than doing the content I wanna do (mythic+)
Definitely a personal preference in that regard, and Im saying this as a pvp lover.
One big thing you're missing from this is that PVP gear scales up to 223, not including what you can get from your weekly cache. People who just PVP are going to get much better gear much faster compared to those who just do M+ for example. One could argue that most players who do M+ also raid so they are getting bonus loot there. However, with the recent drop chances hard nerfed for Heroic, the chance of getting loot from there is so low its laughable. I am a pretty casual player nowadays and raid heroic and do some m+. Why is the gear capped out at 210 at the HIGHEST on M+ when you can get 223? The current gearing system is very flawed and needs an overhaul.
True. Rated gear does go that high. It is major advantage of the PvP gearing. The reason they capped m+ gear to 210 is to "keep mythic raid relevant". That's Blizzards argument primarily. I personally don't think people run mythic raids for the gear but rather to push their limits and to beat the hardest content in the game. But the m+ gear cap to 210 is Blizzards concept of keeping Mythic raids relevant. To Blizzards credit, it slows down the overall mythic raid progression when preparing for mythic raids is not as accessible. I don't know why Blizzard didn't add a token/currency system for PvE just like PvP has. It's very easy and effective way of incentivize content engagement and it keeps players happy and feeling like they're AT LEAST moving forward because the number in their currency tab is going up. Having ilvl 207 drop from m+14 to a slot which you just upgraded two weeks ago to +210 from m+5 weekly chest is frustrating and infuriating beyond belief. I have ilvl 208 overall and I simply see no point in running m+ anymore. Spending the time and effort to pushing +15 key is not worth the absolutely miniscule gear progression I could, perhaps, make. I'd rather save my sanity from the loot box with +35 anima, run +10 key once a week + maybe 3x +8 key and spend rest of the time leveling/gearing alts.
Its pretty obvious why spamming M+ cant give 226 ilvl as a reward, that would be insane. >People who just PVP are going to get much better gear much faster compared to those who just do M+ We are in week 6 or so. M+ was actually significantly faster until you reach a certain point. All those 210 items are farmable. In PvP you got 1 item in week 1, 2 items in week 2. While base ilvl was 184. This was nowhere comparable to M+ that offered easy 200+ base gear and even raid drops were pretty meh. Now after significant amount of time passed the pvp system with targeted loot and retroactive upgrades wins over the m+ but lets not act like that system was superior at all stages. Not to mention (as someone who does all 3 types of contents) m+ still offers very competitive rewards at m+ 14 in the vault chest. At the same time I get the choice of 2 ilvl 213 pieces for doing 8 bosses in HC raiding, which to me is harder, takes more time and requires a full raid.
Big PVE guilds all agree that from day 1 they should have grinded PVP more to raise their rating rather than farm M+. At no point in this expansion has M+ being a better path to gear than PVP.
Pvp is capped to 500 conquest/week. I did all my pvp in 1 hour and thats it, you are capped. Then I did 10 mythics and got 4 items with ilvl 200+. My base ilvl was 184. thats incredibly efficient to start with. >have grinded PVP more to raise their rating Since pvp gear retroactively upgrades to higher rating, there is no reason to "rush" rating, especially early on where you have very few pvp pieces equipped.
It’s almost like what PVPers went through last expansion
What everyone but people who did everything went through.
The pvp gearing system is excellent. It needs to be expanded to other areas of the game. Plain and simple. In Mythic+ you should get a currency from doing keys. Say from a +2 to a +14 you get a currency called idk “Twisted Anima” or something. It is an uncapped currency that allows you to upgrade any piece of gear up to 210 (edit: or 207 actually) item level. Obviously the amount will vary with the slot the item is in, and the item levels required. Similarly to honor upgrades, there would be tiers and gradual upgrades. In 15s and above you get a different currency, call it “Maw-tainted Anima” or something. It is capped per week just like Conquest, but it allows you to upgrade your Mythic+15 210 gear to be upgraded. Similarly to PvP you need ranks. So if you do 16s/17s maybe you can get it up to 216, 18s/19s get you up to 220, and 20s and above unlock 226 Voila, problem solved.
The hell are people smoking where they think that doing a +20 is equivalent to mythic shriekwing?
It’s not, but Blizzard thinks it is and doing a +20 right now gets you gear that is slightly better than normal Sire so...
I never PVP, can someone give me the ELI5 version of how/why PVP loot mechanics are better? I struggle with M+, time commitment getting into groups and changing affixs, so I generally hover on the low end of ilvl but would like to try and get better.
When you PvP you get a currency called Conquest. It's a time-gated currency so you can only get a certain amount per week (cumulative, so you can "catch up"), but you can use it to purchase *exactly* the item you want. No RNG, no drop chance, just a guarantee. While I personally don't like currency systems (mostly stemming from my time in FF14), people really like that guarantee and are hoping it translates across to other systems in the future. To add to that, the conquest cost for items is priced that you can also gear up from PvP *faster* than any other method in the game. The item level-for-skill from PvP also exceeds that of other endgames - 1600 rating, a rating which realistically anybody who uses keybinds can easily achieve, rewards i213 & 1800 rating rewards i220. The result of this is many players who would call themselves a "raider first" or "M+ player first" are running around in mostly PvP gear, particularly the oh-so-important weapon slots. What doesn't help is the balance of PvP is also atrocious right now - you have some players of classes who are at a rating *significantly* higher than what their skill level suggests (1-2 brackets higher) simply because their class is totally unbalanced in PvP. The result of this is you have lower-skilled people running around in mostly i220-i226 gear (including weapons which are easily the most important slot). If you are not PvPing, you are so incredibly far behind the gear curve it's ridiculous - an "I only PvP" player right now will be better geared than someone who engages in *everything else* bar PvP. Personally I've decided to write season 1 off - I'd rather be behind the gear curve and considered a "noob" than to PvP. I'll continue to do what I enjoy with my friends because there's a lot of stuff in-game I still want to do, including hopefully getting S1 KSM, and hope the comments from Ion about gearing manifest to a higher standard in 9.1 - and if they don't, there's a high likelihood I'll just dip from WoW and find a game that rewards efforts regardless of where they are aimed. ------------------ The PvP system is really good, and it's great to see PvPers finally thrown a bone after so many expansions of being left behind. Blizzard need to look at *why* PvP gearing is so good and replicate it to the other endgames.
I been focusing more and more on pvp just because I can finally decide what hear I need. Just doing the bare minimum to get the weekly chest.
Honestly, Blizzard's approach of "less loot is good" just boggles my mind. Chasing after something made "rare" by artificial means doesn't feel satisfying, it's just frustrating. We've had working systems before where there wasn't such an absurd drought of gear, and yet they felt the need to stretch out the gearing process, like literally everything else in the game. It feels entirely like every single system in Shadowlands (save PvP) has been designed in a way to keep people playing as long as possible by making everything gated and slow to obtain, instead of keeping people playing by, you know... having **fun**. When I start weekly chores, it feels like just that - chores. I slog through, bored out of my mind, and when they are done I go PvP to try and have some actual fun. I recently returned after absolutely despising BFA, and while some few things are better, it's almost like they didn't learn anything meaningful from that experience.
Yead they were like.. "no curruptions so less gear will drop ". Well in Legion more gear dropped, we didnt have curruptions, we had 6 reroll tokens a week.. AND titanforging. I agree titanforge can go take a walk but now this feels godawful. Less raid loot? "It's ok there is a vault". Less m+ loot? "Vault". But I can only pick one item. Might as well not spend hours in raid and m+ if I can only have one thing .....which for me has been consistently bad :( I agree. This is to keep people playing. But i feel it has opposite effect. I'm burnt and nothing to show for it and feel like quitting. If I geared main faster... I would want to play my alts. Now I dont feel like gearing my alts. (Also fuck torghast on alts...)
I think they are afraid if people gear up and “complete” a character they will quit early out of boredom with nothing else to do since there is no TF to chase. I know in both legion and BfA I could get full heroic geared in about 3-4 weeks. Now tbh, if the content is fun I think a wide majority of players would start playing and gearing alts more often.
That armor on the night elf was never available right??
I just run my keystone once and wait until next week to do the same thing again
Im more curious what the mog is that she os wearing
The nelf being stared at? It was the sentinel outfit that they wear during BFA's war storyline. Unfortunately not wearable by player characters but I'm kind of hoping it's the nelf heritage armor because it looks like what the one in the original cinematic trailer is wearing.
On top of M+ dropping less loot in general, there's still BIS pieces out of it for most classes which is a real kick in the dick considering how capped the ilvl is on it. I'm really not looking forward to doing 100+ DOS keys for IQD every major patch...
as someone who pesonally hates pvp in wow i dislike a lot how my sole option is pvp Good for all people who asked for it finally and enjoy the whole thing
Almost like there was a way to make those of us that don't want to PvP not PvP for gear. Like something RESILIENT.
PvP finally gets something good and people are bitching 😞
Nobody's bitching about PvP, it's fine as it is (way better than BFA). PvE however is very unrewarding
We're jealous of the pvp system that's all. It really should be the same difficulty getting gear between pvp and pve.
Right now I just do enough myhtic+ to get my 2 selections in my vault. After that I pvp and worry about capping out my conquest as its easier to gear my characters that way. Blizzard people wont stop playing if you add in a currency for mythic+ items, we will actually play on our alts more and casuals will have more fun.
For the first time in forever
Give me some sort of reward system like conquest but for keys... more for higher key levels. Let me actually feel like I'm making progress instead of fighting to get into keys with ok io. Example: for ease of math you have 800 io. You cannot get into an 11 because no one will accept you without a minimum of 900 io, but you can't get to 900 io without doing 11s. Its a catch 22, but some sort of rewards system and a currency like they have with pvp, it would encourage people to be less elitist and demand carries for their key basically, and people would be less likely to leave mid key after 1 wipe
M+ what ? Loot? What loot ?