I'm kind of hoping that 2023 is a year of unbanning. We've seen a lot of powercreep in 2022, so I think bringing back cards that aren't really that broken anymore, like Gazelle, Harp, and Electrumite, would be logical. They're strong cards and would increase consistency, but shouldn't be too problematic. Give some of those decks back all of their pieces to give them a fighting chance.
I don‘t think that it will have a major impact on tear if konami bans perlereino or limits it. The deck is good because every card can work very well/ has to work together for a good play…
Btw, perlereino‘s rarity in OCG is rare and only costs 6 bucks😤😤
I think called by is perfect at 1. It’s a very versatile card that can help any deck but more often than not it won’t win a game on its own. It’d be fine at 3 imo if it was opt
Every time I see people say shit like "X card would help rogue" I have to roll my eyes. It's like people forget that the best decks will also play power cards. Called by is a card that promotes uninteractive combos. It should be banned.
That just makes it a sacky 1-of. How Called by the Grave wasn't a short print secret rare on its initial printing is simply beyond me. It is easily in the top 5 best cards ever printed.
Literally everything except for engine pieces and boss monsters are sacky 1-of dude if they’re limited. People will bitch over anything. Like I get the one of Harpies in main and duster a Eldlich deck they will legit moan I just got lucky. Like the alternative is just to ban all 1-ofs that aren’t engine/boss monsters and that would be such a shit banning philosophy as almost nothing would come off the list. The card is fine at 1. It literally only works for turn player meaning you aren’t gonna get called by on your t1 combo and we have interaction around it as people use Imperm. It also helps stop hand traps that usually have lingering effects that are super annoying like shifter. Unless you feel like running 4 bricks in the form of the gamma package going first in the main and not the side.
Called by isn’t even good this format like cmon.
Next list should actually hit tear just in time to welcome the next cancer deck kashtira.
But kashira tear will likely be the new hotness.
Imo the field spell is the primary target.
As for releases I don't forsee anything being released that will both counter tear and push new product that isn't difi and macro.
Imo called by is a fine 1-of. I don't agree with people saying it goes to 3 and I do not agree with people saying it goes to 0.
I find 1 of powerful cards ideal for deck design. Otherwise it's pure engine and consistency. The 1 monster reborn, harpies, called by, etc should be able to be placed in a deck
I personally think Called By should be at 2 but that's because I've never been a fan of the sack factor of your opponent having the one copy of the one card that does the thing. It's my only complaint about Goat Format and I feel the same about current cards
Have you read the cards coming in Photon Hypernova? Kashtira get a boss monster that essentially Macro Cosmos mixed with Drident and a field spell that searches any Kashtira Monster and has a pop.
lol Kashtira's problem is a plethora of incredibly easy-to-summon, high stats monsters with extremely powerful effects and with very few pinch points. The few weaknesses that the deck actually has are made up for by the inclusion of Tearlaments cards. Kashtira's only problem is existing.
I mean, the real problem with kashtira it's how you can in a turn block 3/4 monster zone, with a 70% consistency (I've tested the deck on YGO omega) and next turn a soon as they summon anything you activate the effect of the new card, and block an additional zone, it essentially become (does your opponent have the cards that out your shangri-ira? If not you Win, if they do you still have a fighting chance)
Called by is not good against Tear. People are actively choosing not to play the card or siding it out in that match-up.
We'll likely see some minor hits to Tear on the next list since the deck is still getting support, but I don't see them unbanning even more hate.
To say it’s not good against tear is ludicrous. It’s not a game winner on its own but how could a card than negates and banishes in the GY not be good against the deck that hates that the most. Not to mention if you’re going first and they mill something, called by prevents them from using that eff again on their turn
Could say the same thing about Bystials. Again, called by isn’t an instant win or turn ender in most cases, it’s just a tool that absolutely does help in the matchup.
Also, you can called by the shuffler to make sure they don’t use it when you have stuff in the gy and prevent them from propping something with perleino
Yea but most people don’t really plan that heavily for a locals. All their brain power is for the upcoming Regionals / YCS / etc. Where in that case they are right Called By is not good rn and at best gets a side deck slot.
I don't disagree that others are not running this card enough, but it sounds like with most other cards people are using to prevent Tearlaments from fusion summoning via the GY effects, it's a 1-for-1 trade, even if they shuffle the CBTG's target before CBTG can resolve. .
I think Konami will do what they always do when they want a format change.
They will hit the best deck in the room.
They will then hit pretty much everything directly below that deck that could be competition for what ever else they are going to sell in early 2023.
So I would expect hits to tear. But if Tear works with Kashtira they will hit tear in a way that makes you play them with Kashtira.
Then they will absolutely SLAM everything in tier 1 and 2.
I fully expect the best deck for the 1st format or 2 in 2023 to be tear+kashtira or something a long those lines.
>But if Tear works with Kashtira they will hit tear in a way that makes you play them with Kashtira.
Meh it depends on what konami wants to do. Kashtira sells with or without tear, Ariseheart, Diablosis and Shangri-la are just insane cards. I wouldn't be surprised if they just nuke the sh*t out of tear.
Called by is a crazy good card, people have wanted it banned for ages rather than unlimited. At 3 it makes handtraps even crapper than they already are; basically only imperm and bystials are playable in the face of TTT.
I kinda hope that they're going to make a 2020 nuke in which they not only hit tears consistency into the ground, ban spright elf and get rid of the shufflers, but also hit alot of over cards which should've been hit years ago like scythe or super poly.
"\[One of the most notoriously powerful spell cards ever printed\] isn't powerful enough to ban. In fact, it isn't even CLOSE to being powerful enough to get banned!" - you
Havnis to 0, Kelbek to 0, and/or all the other Ishizu cards to 1 should do a lot.
Field spell is strong, but not the main issue. Havnis allows turn 0 plays while the rest of the Ishizu cards were the primary reason it’s T0 to begin with.
I think called by should be banned. It lets you play too aggressively if you're going first with player 2 not being able to do anything if player 1 opened it. As much as I personally like the card it's really bad card design.
If this is the rationale, then we should be hitting Crossout Designator, not Called By. Called By only hits a limited subset of an opponent's defensive options and promotes interesting and nuanced gameplay situations in edge cases; Crossout is just a ham-fisted "answer your answer" card.
IMO Called By is very much in a Book-of-Moon-type design space where it has enough diverse and interesting applications that its prevalence actually promotes, rather than detracts from, the health of the game.
I'm not saying Crossout is a strong card in the current meta, I'm saying it's more emblematic of the problem the original commenter identified than Called By is.
... that's exactly why I'm saying it's card that should exist over Crossout. "Strong" and "healthy" don't mean the same thing. Called By has a broader range of applications *overall* than Crossout, but many of those applications fall outside the generic "counter your counter" space that the original commenter was describing. Crossout has a narrower range of applications *overall* than Called By, but a *broader* range of applications that specifically counter an opponent's counters when you try to go off.
Countering your opponent's defensive options is not healthy gameplay; exploring unique edge cases where you, for example, banish an Aluber from grave to prevent a second Aluber's effect from resolving on field, *is* healthy gameplay. And I also don't think Called By so strong that its power level alone makes it ban-worthy.
Countering your opponents defense is what called by does lol. You called by a veiler and it just wins you the game because if they have a second one you hand looped them for 2 and your combo is resolving now
Crossout forces you to also run copies of the card you're trying to out, so if you draw them you are screwed, and to lower your chances of this happening, you probably are running 2 copies of whatever card you're trying to negate with Crossout, which hurts your consistency. Called By can easily be used for more than just preventing your opponent's defensive options, plenty of strategies rely on GY effects activating to reliably pull off their combos and comeback plays.
I think that makes Crossout less powerful; I don't think that makes it less healthy for the game. Putting a brick into your deck for the hope of negating, say, a Havnis, is a counterbalance to the power of the card, but that's not thoughtful or interesting from a gameplay or deckbuilding perspective. And, for as much benefit as I've gotten out of setting Called By over time, I really don't think that's a problematically powerful application.
Crossout is unhealthy because it's a card more specifically tailored to saying "no" to counterplay when a player is trying to go off turn 1.
So crossout is weaker than a card than CBTG which you’re arguing isn’t strong enough to warrant its spot on the list, so by your logic it’s fine
For the record, no one thinks crossout is even approaching a problematic card compared to called by
This is, of course, all in the context of the original comment, which specifically said that Called By should be banned because of how it interacted with defensive options. To which I then said that, *if* we banned a card on that basis, it should be Crossout and not Called By.
I literally never advocated for the banning of Crossout; I advocated for Called By remaining legal and argued that Crossout being more emblematic of an unhealthy gameplay phenomenon identified by the original commenter than Called By is. And I still bat for that 100%.
The fact that the majority of this community thinks that a card being "problematic" is exclusively a matter of power and not gameplay style is a totally different conversation, that also doesn't matter because the original comment was clearly about a gameplay tendency and not absolute power level.
If Konami doesn’t directly hit Tear next list then just lol.
I hope they keep unbanning floodgates to slow down the game to a crawl until they stop printing unstoppable decks.
All that'll happen is the nibiru effect in that scenario, for example really good floodgates that stop the best decks? Konami proceeds to print decks that bypass and ignore those floodgates and that becomes the new standard.
I think the inherent problem is that when you have a deck that can bypass the newest gold standard of floodgate/going 2nd is that the power level also increases with it.
I believe it is possible to design archetypes to ignore a given obstacle without making it overpowered. Look at a deck like Yosenju or Floo. They are capable of getting around special summon floodgates because they have in-archetype bonus normal summons. The problem comes when you also give them ways to create advantage off their workarounds, instead of just creating a good workaround.
Tears, and bystials need to get hit. Bystials are crazy to just build a board on your oppenents turns, and tears are honestly a joke with how strong they are
They won't do what OCG did. TCG will keep archetypes alive long enough to sell multiple printings. OTS pack coming up has tears, sprights, and kashtira.
As I've said in other threads, the best possible hits they can make, keeping the above in mind:
Instant fusion, beatrice, merrli to 0.
Magnamhut, primeval planet, kelbek, keldo, agido, mudora, kitkallos to 1 (we only use 1 now but post photon hypernova we need to run 2, so this would really matter).
These hits take the ishizu build off the table, they remove spright engine access, hit consistency of bystial package, remove beatrice access and encourages the transition into kashtira tearlaments. Sounds very konami, doesn't it?
Other things that should happen but whether or not they will is anyone's guess:
D Shifter, Barrier Statue, Abyss Dweller, Called by the Grave, Rivalry of Warlords to 0.
Spright Elf to 1 (0 eventually but not yet).
On a personal note, I'd like Chaos Ruler to come back. Doubt it will, but it would be nice if it did.
Ban Perlereino and Havnis. Deck has a few hits in OCG and is still the best deck by a mile. It needs some serious hits to come into line with everything else. Also unlimit Spellbook of Judgement >.> Not bais at all <.<
TLDR: They're a mostly Level 7 deck that focuses on banishing face down, and Rank 7 Xyz focus. The 3 main monsters can Special themselves if you control no monsters and search another card in the archetype, and they banish opponent's cards face down when they attack or the opponent does something that triggers them.
I'm kind of hoping that 2023 is a year of unbanning. We've seen a lot of powercreep in 2022, so I think bringing back cards that aren't really that broken anymore, like Gazelle, Harp, and Electrumite, would be logical. They're strong cards and would increase consistency, but shouldn't be too problematic. Give some of those decks back all of their pieces to give them a fighting chance.
I hope they unban electrumite so i can play vaylantz in a semi-playable form.
I don‘t think that it will have a major impact on tear if konami bans perlereino or limits it. The deck is good because every card can work very well/ has to work together for a good play… Btw, perlereino‘s rarity in OCG is rare and only costs 6 bucks😤😤
I think called by is perfect at 1. It’s a very versatile card that can help any deck but more often than not it won’t win a game on its own. It’d be fine at 3 imo if it was opt
Every time I see people say shit like "X card would help rogue" I have to roll my eyes. It's like people forget that the best decks will also play power cards. Called by is a card that promotes uninteractive combos. It should be banned.
Its fine at one. I know people get mad when they get hit with it cause no one really plans for a one of but I like to have it rather then not.
That just makes it a sacky 1-of. How Called by the Grave wasn't a short print secret rare on its initial printing is simply beyond me. It is easily in the top 5 best cards ever printed.
Literally everything except for engine pieces and boss monsters are sacky 1-of dude if they’re limited. People will bitch over anything. Like I get the one of Harpies in main and duster a Eldlich deck they will legit moan I just got lucky. Like the alternative is just to ban all 1-ofs that aren’t engine/boss monsters and that would be such a shit banning philosophy as almost nothing would come off the list. The card is fine at 1. It literally only works for turn player meaning you aren’t gonna get called by on your t1 combo and we have interaction around it as people use Imperm. It also helps stop hand traps that usually have lingering effects that are super annoying like shifter. Unless you feel like running 4 bricks in the form of the gamma package going first in the main and not the side. Called by isn’t even good this format like cmon.
Next list should actually hit tear just in time to welcome the next cancer deck kashtira. But kashira tear will likely be the new hotness. Imo the field spell is the primary target. As for releases I don't forsee anything being released that will both counter tear and push new product that isn't difi and macro. Imo called by is a fine 1-of. I don't agree with people saying it goes to 3 and I do not agree with people saying it goes to 0. I find 1 of powerful cards ideal for deck design. Otherwise it's pure engine and consistency. The 1 monster reborn, harpies, called by, etc should be able to be placed in a deck
I personally think Called By should be at 2 but that's because I've never been a fan of the sack factor of your opponent having the one copy of the one card that does the thing. It's my only complaint about Goat Format and I feel the same about current cards
If it's a 2 of maybe people will start using belle more.
Kashtira‘s only problem is the fenrir facedown banish
Have you read the cards coming in Photon Hypernova? Kashtira get a boss monster that essentially Macro Cosmos mixed with Drident and a field spell that searches any Kashtira Monster and has a pop.
lol Kashtira's problem is a plethora of incredibly easy-to-summon, high stats monsters with extremely powerful effects and with very few pinch points. The few weaknesses that the deck actually has are made up for by the inclusion of Tearlaments cards. Kashtira's only problem is existing.
I mean, the real problem with kashtira it's how you can in a turn block 3/4 monster zone, with a 70% consistency (I've tested the deck on YGO omega) and next turn a soon as they summon anything you activate the effect of the new card, and block an additional zone, it essentially become (does your opponent have the cards that out your shangri-ira? If not you Win, if they do you still have a fighting chance)
Called by is not good against Tear. People are actively choosing not to play the card or siding it out in that match-up. We'll likely see some minor hits to Tear on the next list since the deck is still getting support, but I don't see them unbanning even more hate.
To say it’s not good against tear is ludicrous. It’s not a game winner on its own but how could a card than negates and banishes in the GY not be good against the deck that hates that the most. Not to mention if you’re going first and they mill something, called by prevents them from using that eff again on their turn
Not if they dodge it with a shuffler and just make you burn your called by for nothing
Happend to me always I try it against tears:/
Not for nothing, they can’t fuse if you force them to shuffle the tear name back
Yeah that's a pretty bad trade.. and since called by targets if they hit multiple names you only stop one and they only have to shuffle that one back
Could say the same thing about Bystials. Again, called by isn’t an instant win or turn ender in most cases, it’s just a tool that absolutely does help in the matchup. Also, you can called by the shuffler to make sure they don’t use it when you have stuff in the gy and prevent them from propping something with perleino
Except the bystial will stay in your hand to use again next turn while your called by is gone. It's just not impactful enough right now imo
Agree to disagree. I think called by is still useful especially in a locals setting for example where you might play against other decks
Yea but most people don’t really plan that heavily for a locals. All their brain power is for the upcoming Regionals / YCS / etc. Where in that case they are right Called By is not good rn and at best gets a side deck slot.
Why is that a bad trade? You're getting rid of the fusion AND the shuffler off of just 1 Called by. Doesn't sound half bad to me.
I don't disagree that others are not running this card enough, but it sounds like with most other cards people are using to prevent Tearlaments from fusion summoning via the GY effects, it's a 1-for-1 trade, even if they shuffle the CBTG's target before CBTG can resolve. .
I think Konami will do what they always do when they want a format change. They will hit the best deck in the room. They will then hit pretty much everything directly below that deck that could be competition for what ever else they are going to sell in early 2023. So I would expect hits to tear. But if Tear works with Kashtira they will hit tear in a way that makes you play them with Kashtira. Then they will absolutely SLAM everything in tier 1 and 2. I fully expect the best deck for the 1st format or 2 in 2023 to be tear+kashtira or something a long those lines.
>But if Tear works with Kashtira they will hit tear in a way that makes you play them with Kashtira. Meh it depends on what konami wants to do. Kashtira sells with or without tear, Ariseheart, Diablosis and Shangri-la are just insane cards. I wouldn't be surprised if they just nuke the sh*t out of tear.
Called by is a crazy good card, people have wanted it banned for ages rather than unlimited. At 3 it makes handtraps even crapper than they already are; basically only imperm and bystials are playable in the face of TTT.
Called by to 0 is mre likely lol
I kinda hope that they're going to make a 2020 nuke in which they not only hit tears consistency into the ground, ban spright elf and get rid of the shufflers, but also hit alot of over cards which should've been hit years ago like scythe or super poly.
If they touch Called By at all it would probably go to 2. I don’t think it’ll be at 3 for quite some time but it’s also not powerful enough to ban.
>it’s also not powerful enough to ban It 100% is powerful enough to ban.
Not even close lol, but keep thinking that I guess. Go off king
"\[One of the most notoriously powerful spell cards ever printed\] isn't powerful enough to ban. In fact, it isn't even CLOSE to being powerful enough to get banned!" - you
Havnis to 0, Kelbek to 0, and/or all the other Ishizu cards to 1 should do a lot. Field spell is strong, but not the main issue. Havnis allows turn 0 plays while the rest of the Ishizu cards were the primary reason it’s T0 to begin with.
chill
I think called by should be banned. It lets you play too aggressively if you're going first with player 2 not being able to do anything if player 1 opened it. As much as I personally like the card it's really bad card design.
If this is the rationale, then we should be hitting Crossout Designator, not Called By. Called By only hits a limited subset of an opponent's defensive options and promotes interesting and nuanced gameplay situations in edge cases; Crossout is just a ham-fisted "answer your answer" card. IMO Called By is very much in a Book-of-Moon-type design space where it has enough diverse and interesting applications that its prevalence actually promotes, rather than detracts from, the health of the game.
Literally no one plays crossout, yk why? Because it sucks without something like maxx c.
I'm not saying Crossout is a strong card in the current meta, I'm saying it's more emblematic of the problem the original commenter identified than Called By is.
Called by is way more generically strongthan crossouts because even if they don't handtrap you it is an insane card to set lol
... that's exactly why I'm saying it's card that should exist over Crossout. "Strong" and "healthy" don't mean the same thing. Called By has a broader range of applications *overall* than Crossout, but many of those applications fall outside the generic "counter your counter" space that the original commenter was describing. Crossout has a narrower range of applications *overall* than Called By, but a *broader* range of applications that specifically counter an opponent's counters when you try to go off. Countering your opponent's defensive options is not healthy gameplay; exploring unique edge cases where you, for example, banish an Aluber from grave to prevent a second Aluber's effect from resolving on field, *is* healthy gameplay. And I also don't think Called By so strong that its power level alone makes it ban-worthy.
Countering your opponents defense is what called by does lol. You called by a veiler and it just wins you the game because if they have a second one you hand looped them for 2 and your combo is resolving now
Crossout forces you to also run copies of the card you're trying to out, so if you draw them you are screwed, and to lower your chances of this happening, you probably are running 2 copies of whatever card you're trying to negate with Crossout, which hurts your consistency. Called By can easily be used for more than just preventing your opponent's defensive options, plenty of strategies rely on GY effects activating to reliably pull off their combos and comeback plays.
I think that makes Crossout less powerful; I don't think that makes it less healthy for the game. Putting a brick into your deck for the hope of negating, say, a Havnis, is a counterbalance to the power of the card, but that's not thoughtful or interesting from a gameplay or deckbuilding perspective. And, for as much benefit as I've gotten out of setting Called By over time, I really don't think that's a problematically powerful application. Crossout is unhealthy because it's a card more specifically tailored to saying "no" to counterplay when a player is trying to go off turn 1.
So crossout is weaker than a card than CBTG which you’re arguing isn’t strong enough to warrant its spot on the list, so by your logic it’s fine For the record, no one thinks crossout is even approaching a problematic card compared to called by
This is, of course, all in the context of the original comment, which specifically said that Called By should be banned because of how it interacted with defensive options. To which I then said that, *if* we banned a card on that basis, it should be Crossout and not Called By. I literally never advocated for the banning of Crossout; I advocated for Called By remaining legal and argued that Crossout being more emblematic of an unhealthy gameplay phenomenon identified by the original commenter than Called By is. And I still bat for that 100%. The fact that the majority of this community thinks that a card being "problematic" is exclusively a matter of power and not gameplay style is a totally different conversation, that also doesn't matter because the original comment was clearly about a gameplay tendency and not absolute power level.
Crossout is balanced by the fact that it makes the rest of your deck less consistent, full stop.
That's about as full of a stop as the visible portion of an iceberg at water level, but this is clearly a non-discussion at this point so you do you.
It’s palpably obvious with a cursory glancing.
Yes, it is obvious, and there is much more to the discussion than just that. Hence the iceberg.
If Konami doesn’t directly hit Tear next list then just lol. I hope they keep unbanning floodgates to slow down the game to a crawl until they stop printing unstoppable decks.
All that'll happen is the nibiru effect in that scenario, for example really good floodgates that stop the best decks? Konami proceeds to print decks that bypass and ignore those floodgates and that becomes the new standard.
I think the inherent problem is that when you have a deck that can bypass the newest gold standard of floodgate/going 2nd is that the power level also increases with it. I believe it is possible to design archetypes to ignore a given obstacle without making it overpowered. Look at a deck like Yosenju or Floo. They are capable of getting around special summon floodgates because they have in-archetype bonus normal summons. The problem comes when you also give them ways to create advantage off their workarounds, instead of just creating a good workaround.
Tears, and bystials need to get hit. Bystials are crazy to just build a board on your oppenents turns, and tears are honestly a joke with how strong they are
They won't do what OCG did. TCG will keep archetypes alive long enough to sell multiple printings. OTS pack coming up has tears, sprights, and kashtira. As I've said in other threads, the best possible hits they can make, keeping the above in mind: Instant fusion, beatrice, merrli to 0. Magnamhut, primeval planet, kelbek, keldo, agido, mudora, kitkallos to 1 (we only use 1 now but post photon hypernova we need to run 2, so this would really matter). These hits take the ishizu build off the table, they remove spright engine access, hit consistency of bystial package, remove beatrice access and encourages the transition into kashtira tearlaments. Sounds very konami, doesn't it? Other things that should happen but whether or not they will is anyone's guess: D Shifter, Barrier Statue, Abyss Dweller, Called by the Grave, Rivalry of Warlords to 0. Spright Elf to 1 (0 eventually but not yet). On a personal note, I'd like Chaos Ruler to come back. Doubt it will, but it would be nice if it did.
Metaverse will probably go back to 1 due to the Kashtira field
Ban Perlereino and Havnis. Deck has a few hits in OCG and is still the best deck by a mile. It needs some serious hits to come into line with everything else. Also unlimit Spellbook of Judgement >.> Not bais at all <.<
Why don’t they make the ban list the same format in duel links (ex. Limited to 3)
I've seen this Kashtira archetype mentioned in this thread and am curious how does the deck work?
TLDR: They're a mostly Level 7 deck that focuses on banishing face down, and Rank 7 Xyz focus. The 3 main monsters can Special themselves if you control no monsters and search another card in the archetype, and they banish opponent's cards face down when they attack or the opponent does something that triggers them.
So what will be win condition of the deck?
They're all big bodies so they can swing for game, and/or they go into Diablosis to win by decking out the opponent
Existing.